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To: kearnyirish2
they have no response when you concur with their assessment and ask why we’re paying teachers if there are no results anyway.

Why are the results sooooo abysmal in many government schools? The following are possible answers:

Do Prussian-model schools work? Do we really know the answer to this question? Where are the studies proving it!

Perhaps the only thing that these prison-like schools are doing is sending home a tuition-free curriculum for the parents and children to follow in the HOME.

Perhaps children from functional families learn because the parents and the child himself are AFTERSCHOOLING!

Maybe, for generations, we have been sending children into these prison-like institutions and THEY DO NOT WORK for ANY child! Where are the studies that prove that they do work?

I have asked this question, "Where are the studies!", many times, and **no** so-called "educator" has ever provided the studies that show what learning was acquired in the classroom and what was learned IN THE HOME!

If we absolve the teachers of responsibility for the outcome,

If I were attempting to sell a service in my own private business, I would want to know that the service had the **outcome** that I promised!!! If my private business service had a poor outcome, I would soon be out of business.

In government education, no teacher has ever provided me with the studies that PROVE that all this effort and taxpayer treasure spent in these expensive kiddie-prisons actually provides the **outcome** promised!

can we then proceed to use security guards to simply hold the children for 6 hours a day?

Yes, exactly!

If we were to **study** the problem of **where** children learns, and **who** is doing the hard work ( parent, child, friends of the family, hired tutors, teacher, etc.) we might find that government school has little to nothing to do with the child's success at learning!

An academically successful child may be successful IN SPITE of the time wasted in these prison-like structions. His success may be due to effort found entirely outside the school and IN THE HOME.

If academic success is due to the functional parent and child's resources and work done IN THE HOME, then it is **idiocy** to expect that children from dysfunctional families will have any success in these Prussian-model and prison-like "schools". We might as well hire security guards to babysit.

I ask these questions because I was the doctor in and owner of a large health clinic. Throughout my career, I had the opportunity to know, likely, thousands of families.

I ( anecdotally) observed that the parents of academically successful children, whether homeschooled or institutionalized, were doing the **SAME** things in the home. They had the same home habits, and the children ( whether home or institutionally schooled) were spending the same amount of time in "at the kitchen table" learning activities. Both sets of parents ( home or institutionally schooled) were getting the same types of outside help when needed. They hired tutors; asked help from neighbors, friends, and relatives; and organized study groups ( this was especially true for homeschoolers and older institutionalized children from foreign countries.)

My conclusion: The **real** hard work of learning was happening IN THE HOME. The institutional school was sending home a curriculum.

So...Again, why can't "professional" and so-called "educators" provide the studies that PROVE their service has an effective OUTCOME??? They can't provide the studies because the studies have never been done! We are spent taxpayer fortunes on a educational scheme that has never been tested or proved effective!!!

When spending tax dollars on education we MUST know the answer to this basic question. Why?

Answer:

If learning is due to the efforts of the parents and child IN THE HOME, then it is likely that putting children from functional families in prison-like settings actually artificially retards their academic and social development. They might be better off academically and socially if they spent MORE time AT HOME!

If our current Prussian-like model is ineffectual then we need to start thinking about entirely new models of education for the children of dysfunctional families. The KIPP-schools and other charters who are having success with children from dysfunctional family seem to be attempting to duplicate in the school what normally happens in the homes of children from functional families.

39 posted on 02/27/2011 6:01:33 AM PST by wintertime
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To: wintertime

A “Prussian-style” system worked well for providing a basic foundation, on which other learning could build; what we have today doesn’t seem very “Prussian” to me, though I confess I don’t know the particulars of it. I’d imagine Prussian children were much more attentive in class, and there was more done to ensure that lessons “sank in” (even if learning by rote, which has its benefits in some subjects). The amount of homework my children bring home is quite a bit; “No Child Left Behind” has really turned up the pressure on the education industry. I’ve even had things sent home from teachers asking parents to sign a contract that we’ll provide a good homework environment, etc.; the gall of my employees to dictate the terms by which I involuntarily spend several thousand dollars annually on them is stunning (those “contracts” are never returned to school).

On top of the dysfunctional non-learning environment in the classroom is a problem where children outside of school spend less time doing anything other than watch TV or play video games. The number of times I’ve taken my children to a park or playground, and they are among the only American children there, it too high to count; other children (mostly Latino or Asian) are there with one or both parents playing very actively. I understand the work schedules of parents make this difficult, but when I think of how we played outside when we were younger, as compared to how kids are today, it is very sad. Games like man-hunt, and trips along the lines of the movie “Stand By Me”, were routine (I grew up in the edge of the NJ Meadowlands - lots to explore); now when I take my children hiking or camping they don’t get the same out of it that I did.


45 posted on 02/27/2011 9:38:07 AM PST by kearnyirish2
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