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To: edge919

Wrong as usual. IIRC, the time ‘naturel’ was translated natural born, the phrase was ‘subjects natural’ - only French (sujects naturel???). THAT phrase was translated NBS for the English government, and NBC for the American government.

But Vattel didn’t use ‘subjects natural’, he used “Les Naturels ou indigènes font ceux qui font nés dans le pays de Parens Citoyens.”

The 1760 was “The natives, or indigenes...”, as was the 1787 American translation. That is HARDLY a poor translation, and it wasn’t fixed by turning “indigenes” into “natural born citizen.

That isn’t too hard for you, is it? Indigenes means indigenous, not ‘natural born citizen’!


330 posted on 02/20/2011 3:16:56 PM PST by Mr Rogers (Poor history is better than good fiction, and anything with lots of horses is better still)
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To: Mr Rogers
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334 posted on 02/20/2011 4:00:59 PM PST by bushpilot1
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To: Mr Rogers; edge919
Wrong as usual. IIRC, the time ‘naturel’ was translated natural born, the phrase was ‘subjects natural’ - only French (sujects naturel???). THAT phrase was translated NBS for the English government, and NBC for the American government.

Your "IIRC" is BS.

That isn’t too hard for you, is it? Indigenes means indigenous, not ‘natural born citizen’!


You're always the idiot. It is complete nonsense that every translations and printings of the Law of Nations since 1797 for over 200 years have changed the meaning of the original text. That's total BS.

Indigenous means natural..

< English synonymes and synonymous or parallel expressions


Natural and indigenous mean the same

The meaning "indigenous" and or any variation thereof meant the same as natural. It was the same in 1758 or 1760 or before these times.

You even deny your "lying eyes" as seen above in this dictionary from 1876 because you are so full of it. It's not lying.

361 posted on 02/20/2011 8:58:56 PM PST by Red Steel
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To: Mr Rogers
Wrong as usual. IIRC, the time ‘naturel’ was translated natural born, the phrase was ‘subjects natural’ - only French (sujects naturel???). THAT phrase was translated NBS for the English government, and NBC for the American government.

Here's the sentence from the 1781 Journals of the Continental Congress: "Les consuls et vice consuls respectifs ne pourront être pris que parmi les sujets naturels de la puissance qui les nommera." It was translated "The respective Consuls and Vice Consuls shall only be taken from among the natural born subjects of the power nominating them."

"Naturels" is translated to mean "natural born." Thus, when Vattel says "Les Naturels ou indigènes," he would have been understood by these founders to mean "natural born or natives" which is how the terms came to be formally translated 16 years later.

386 posted on 02/21/2011 9:34:55 AM PST by edge919
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