Why the Supreme Court has been compelled to hold a new hearing on Obama’s eligibility.

HillBuzz ^ | February 17,2011 | Kevin DuJan

[dalight]

Drudge has linked this story from World Net Daily that notes the odd decision by the Supreme Court to hold a new “conference” on Obama’s eligibility to hold the presidency.

Let’s research WHY the court could be compelled to do this.

It MUST have something to do with the fact that Obama has no birth certificate on file in the Hawaiian Hall of Records with the name “Barack Hussein Obama” on it — since his original Hawaiian birth certificate with that name was sealed in the 1970s when he was adopted in Indonesia by Lolo Soetoro, his stepfather. At the time of adoption, a child’s original birth certificate is sealed away and replaced in the Hall of Records by a new birth certificate that bears the adopted parents’ names and the child’s new name, if a new name is given.

This is what happened to Obama, when he was renamed “Soetobakh” by his mother and stepfather at the time of adoption.

[Red Steel]

Wrong as usual. IIRC, the time ‘naturel’ was translated natural born, the phrase was ‘subjects natural’ - only French (sujects naturel???). THAT phrase was translated NBS for the English government, and NBC for the American government.

Your "IIRC" is BS.

That isn’t too hard for you, is it? Indigenes means indigenous, not ‘natural born citizen’!

You're always the idiot. It is complete nonsense that every translations and printings of the Law of Nations since 1797 for over 200 years have changed the meaning of the original text. That's total BS.

Indigenous means natural..

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The meaning "indigenous" and or any variation thereof meant the same as natural. It was the same in 1758 or 1760 or before these times.

You even deny your "lying eyes" as seen above in this dictionary from 1876 because you are so full of it. It's not lying.

[bushpilot1]

[Mr Rogers]

If you were not a total idiot, RS, you would realize that indigenous IS the English word for indigenes.

Origin:
1640–50; < Latin indigen ( a ) native, original inhabitant ( indi-, by-form of in- in-2 ( compare indagate) + -gena, derivative from base of gignere to bring into being; compare genital, genitor) + -ous

http://dictionary.reference.com/browse/indigenous

It takes a special sort of blindness to think “natural born citizen” is the proper translation instead of the same word in English form.

[bushpilot1]

The Franklin letter was signed by Dickinson and Jay confirming Vattels Law of Nations being used by the Framers of the Constitution.

[Red Steel]

I noticed dingbat that you did not copy over the words from the other parts of the definition from your link:

"2. innate; inherent; natural (usually followed by to ): feelings indigenous to human beings."

[southland]

Bookmark

[bushpilot1]

[Red Steel]

If you were not a total idiot, RS, you would realize that indigenous IS the English word for indigenes.

I figured you would try this obfuscation nonsense. If you would have read the total post dingbat, you may have noticed that I said this in post 361:

"The meaning "indigenous" and or any variation thereof meant the same as natural."

"Any variation thereof" covers the words "indigenes" or "indigen."

[bushpilot1]

A trade agreement between the US and France, with the agreement shown in both English and French. Within it, “naturels” is translated as “natural born”. In this case refering to subjects/sujets.

In French.

ARTICLE III Les consuls et vice consuls respectifs ne pourront être pris que parmi les sujets naturels de la puissance qui les nommera.

And in English

The respective Consuls and Vice Consuls shall only be taken from among the natural born subjects of the power nominating them.

And there you have it. Naturels was understood as “Natural Born”. Thus the later translation better reflects what the founders, many of whom were quite literate in French, would have understood.

Les citoyens sont les membres de la societe civile : lies a cette societe par certains devoirs et soumis a son autorite, ils participent avec egalite a ses avantages. Les naturels, ou indigenes, sont ceux qui sont nes dans le pays, de parens citoyens. becomes in English, as understood by the founding generation(s)(Franklin was much older than most, but was one of the francophones):

The citizens are the members of the civil society; bound to this society by certain duties, and subject to its authority, they equally participate in its advantages. The natives, or natural-born citizens, are those born in the country, of parents who are citizens.

http://www.freerepublic.com/focus/backroom/2512143/posts?page=20#20

[skinkinthegrass]

Steve Dunham...
...Barack Abdullah Hussein Obama
Please feel free to add your own finds.

I would add some, but this website standards
(the risk of Banning) prevents me from doing so. :)

[Red Steel]

I want to point out something that is always over looked. deVattel makes a distinction between natural law or "natural born" versus English law being a "natural born subject." Pages 162 and 163:

"In England however, being born in the country naturalizes the children of a foreigner.

It is askind, whether the children born of citizens in a foreign country, are citizens? The laws have decided this question in several countries, and it is necessary to follow their regulations.

By the law of nature alone, children follow the conditions of their fathers, and enter into all their rights. The place of birth produces no change in this particular, and cannot of itself furnish any reason for taking from a child what nature has given him; I say of itself, for the civil law, or politics, may order the otherwise, from particular views."

De Vattel tells us unequivocally in the above passage that the English "Natural Born Subject" is a "regulation" or "civil law" and is NOT the same as natural law or being a natural born citizen as written in the U.S. Constitution.

Ms. Wong Kim Ark or little Jamie777 or whoever cites the case United States vs. Wong Kim Ark, by stating Ark is a 'natural born citizen' because justice Horrace Gray cited in his opinion who are 'natural born subjects' in English law, are of the same in meaning...is utterly full of you know what.

[Mr Rogers]

Of COURSE they are similar. That is why he wrote ‘The natural, or indigenous...’ - because they are largely interchangeable. He used synonyms for emphasis. And thus indigene is a word that shows what he meant by naturel - he referred to the native people. He wasn’t trying to deal with every possible case, because he was writing philosophy, not law.

But neither is a word meaning ‘natural born citizen’. And neither should be translated NBC. There are English equivalents to the French, and they should be used. To suggest that the original translations, which used the French words knowing they were identical in all but spelling to the English, was a bad translation that was fixed by substituting NBC is simply either dishonest or stupid.

My point was that inserting NBC as a translation of indigene was bad translating that distorted what Vattel wrote. I’m right.

“les sujets naturels” is a phrase that reasonably translates ‘the subject natural’ - and that makes sense as meaning the legal phrase, in English, of NBS. When used together, a correct translation is different than the word naturels by itself. And the bad translation made in 1797 did NOT translate naturels as NBC, but indigene - which has an English equivalent, and is not a part of any legal phrase.

It was indigene that was translated NBC, and that is simply wrong. It was the 1797 translation that stunk, not the 1760 one. You only argue otherwise because your entire worship of Vattel is without point if you translate Vattel correctly.

[bushpilot1]

What Did the Framers of the Federal Constitution Mean by” Agreements or Compacts”?
AC Weinfeld - The University of Chicago Law Review, 1936 - JSTOR
... Vattel was referred to in the debates of the South Carolina convention called to ratify
the federal Constitution.29 Book II, chapter xii of Vattel’s work

[Beckwith]

I gather you support homosexual rights

Only in your case. Wouldn't want your membership in NAMBLA cancelled.

[bushpilot1]

Lawyers At New Orleans. — We understand that the supreme court of Louisiana, at the solicitation of the members of the bar, have adopted the following rules:

“It is ordered that no person applying for admission as an attorney and counsellor at law, Evidence of citizenship of the United States;

The court will not be satisfied with the qualifications of a candidate, in point of legal learning, unless it shall appear by examination, that he is well read in the following course of studies, at least: an excerpt.

(Swiss jurist..)

Story on the Constitution; Vattel’s Law of Nations; the Institutes of Justinian

The Law reporter, Volume 8 By Peleg Whitman Chandler 1845

[bushpilot1]

http://books.google.com.ph/books?id=gHu4tkYlrQoC&lpg=PA16&vq=Vattel&dq=Vattel%20%20US%20Citizenship&hl=en&pg=PA103#v=onepage&q=naturl%20born%20citizen&f=false

[bushpilot1]

We can skip a moment to later editions of Vattel. Where the exact phrase natural born citizen is used with citizen parents...

The Supreme Court has used the term natural born citizen along with Vattel and the Law of Nations.

The Supreme Court said in 2003..The Law of Nations is recognized as law for over 200 years.

They do not always cite the 1758 French Edition. The 19th Century editions are cited and they are law in the United States.

Pay attention...Obama as President violates the 19th Century
editions. He violates all of them because his father is a foreigner.

A natural born citizen is born to citizen parents.

[edge919]

For any lurkers not familiar with the Minor v Happersett phrasing, it runs:

What you underlined says nothing about natural born citizenship, but instead is referring to a second CLASS of citizen, of which there is doubt about their citizenship. When Waite says there's no need to solve these doubts, he's doing so because Virignia Minor fits the FIRST class of citizen ... NATURAL BORN CITIZEN. The Wong Kim Ark decision AFFIRMED Waite's definition and only dealt with the second class of citizenship for Ark.

[Mr Rogers]

“What you underlined says nothing about natural born citizenship, but instead is referring to a second CLASS of citizen, of which there is doubt about their citizenship.”

No, there are not 3 or 4 classes of citizens in the US. There are citizens born, and citizens naturalized. At the time of Minor, no one doubted that someone born of citizen parents was a citizen, but some argued that foreign parents meant the person was NOT a citizen unless naturalized. That is why WKA became an issue - was a person born in the US automatically a citizen, or did he need to be naturalized.

There is no legal basis for pretending that NBC is a special category of citizenship. Vattel did NOT use the term, and the Founders did not write Vattel into the Constitution.

[jamese777]

The Franklin letter was signed by Dickinson and Jay confirming Vattels Law of Nations being used by the Framers of the Constitution.

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No American court meeting in the 21st Century is interested.