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To: Mr Rogers
In the end, the Supreme Court has argued that the meaning of NBC is found in the analogous term natural born subject, and not in Vattel. That is a big hurdle to clear if you want a court to rule that someone born in the USA of parents here legally is ineligible.

No they didn't. As usual Ms. Rogers you are wrong. Horrace Gray ignored the intent and meaning behind the 14th Amendment, and in noway did he equate Wong Kim Ark to be a natural born citizen. Not even close.

31 posted on 02/07/2011 6:18:37 PM PST by Red Steel
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To: Red Steel
Red Steel said:

No they didn't. As usual Ms. Rogers you are wrong. Horrace Gray ignored the intent and meaning behind the 14th Amendment, and in noway did he equate Wong Kim Ark to be a natural born citizen. Not even close.

According to the Constitution and de Vattel, there is no such thing as a "Native Born Citizen" with regards to a Republican form of government. This term was invented by the courts and certain government officials in the mid to late 1800's.

Even reading the original purist translation based on Latin terminology, there are two types of "natives" to a Republic:
  1. Natives
  2. Indigenes
Both are equivalent in the eyes of de Vattel. And both are clearly defined:

- Must be born to citizens of the land - Must be born to a father who is a citizen of the land - Must be born in the land

Here is the pertinent question. If de Vattel clarified the difference between natives and citizens, what exactly is a native born citizen? if a natural born citizen is not a native, what is it then? Why would the framing fathers distinguish between a Citizen and a Natural Born citizen instead of using the term "native", which was a common phrase at the time?

Why did de Vattel pen this article to begin with? What is the importance of natives and their perpetuation of a society? What are the advantages of having natives versus foreigners, especially during a time when foreign residents were frowned upon within the colonies?

Even if native born and natural born were the same, according to Vattel who was a revered scholar of our framing fathers, neither Obama nor anyone else like McCain would be considered a native of the United States.

Is native the same as natural born? According to de Vattel, both are one in the same.
36 posted on 02/07/2011 6:57:28 PM PST by devattel
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