[NVDave]

And where did they get their numbers?

http://www.howstuffworks.com/framed.htm?parent=ethanol-facts.htm&url=http://healthandenergy.com/ethanol.htm

Pimmental. I told you to not throw those numbers at me, because I’ve run his numbers down and he’s a out-and-out fraud.

Pimmental considers all of the following to be “energy inputs” to ethanol production:

- fuel in the machines used to plant, grow and harvest the crop
- heat sources used to smelt the iron used to make the steel that went into
this equipment
- energy used in the production of fertilizer
- the food the farmer ate.

The biggest problem with Pimmetal’s numbers is this: the farmer was in the business of raising crops (including corn) REGARDLESS of whether that corn was going to go into ethanol or not. He didn’t buy that equipment just to grow corn for ethanol. So all the energy “inputs” for making the steel in the farm equipment is a bogus input. The only way to remove that energy input is to put the farmer out of business and recycle the steel.

Next, we have the energy in the food that the farmer eats. The only way to remove that energy input is to kill the farmer.

See why Pimmetal’s studies are frauds yet?

Then there’s additional issues with Pimmetal’s numbers in the yields he projected farmers receive on growing corn (he was using numbers out of the 1970’s when corn yields go up on average every year). In short, his studies have serious factual issues in them.

[capt. norm]

Nice use of a "straw man" (Pimmental). The ratio of BTU's in and BTU's out is a widely known and measured fact. It's pure chemistry and can be easily proven...in fact it has been proven.

It's a simple fact that it takes 131,000 BTUs to produce one gallon of ethanol (by far most of that energy is used by the distilling process...the rest is minicule by comparison) and the resulting ethanol is only good for 77,000 BTU is the kind of efficiency only a liberal could love.

The fact that the government has to subsidize it should be another clue.

The fact that huge political donors like Archer-Daniel-Midland are making money on this and they have enough political clout to force the taxpayers to funnel money to them by requiring a an ethanol blend, should ring a bell.

[OneWingedShark]

>Pimmental considers all of the following to be “energy inputs” to ethanol production:
>
>- fuel in the machines used to plant, grow and harvest the crop

Actually THAT one *IS* a valid consideration.