KC-135/KC-10 planes have had adapters for years.
Posted on 01/31/2011 8:24:51 PM PST by sukhoi-30mki
Canadian military can't refuel controversial fighter jet in mid-air
By David Pugliese, Postmedia News January 31, 2011
The Canadian military does not have the ability to conduct aerial refuelling of the F-35 fighter jet it wants to purchase and is now looking at ways to get around the problem, the Ottawa Citizen has learned.
Options range from paying for modifications to the stealth jets to purchasing a new fleet of tanker aircraft that can gas up the high-tech fighters in mid-air. That option could cost several hundred million dollars, depending on how many new tankers are needed, according to sources.
In addition, because the F-35 would not be able to safely land on runways in Canada's North as those are too short for the fighter, the Defence Department is also looking at having manufacturer Lockheed Martin install a "drag" chute on the plane.
That parachute would deploy when the aircraft lands, slowing the F-35 Joint Strike Fighter down. But some pilots have said that high winds affecting such runways could make using a drag chute tricky or even dangerous.
The purchase of the 65 F-35 stealth fighters is a centrepiece for the Conservative government's defence policy and a purchase that Prime Minister Stephen Harper says is needed to modernize the military.
The government has suggested the jets are required to defend Canada's Arctic from Russian warplanes as well as to take part in overseas missions.
But the acquisition, estimated to cost between $16 billion and $21 billion, has come under fire from a variety of critics as being unnecessary and too costly.
The opposition Liberals launched a series of advertisements attacking the proposed purchase.
The Liberals have said if elected they would hold a competition to select a new fighter, a process they maintain would save taxpayers money.
The government spent $126 million on modifying some of its current fleet of Polaris transport aircraft to handle mid-air refuelling of CF-18 fighters. The first of the two modified planes was declared operational in 2009.
But the system on the Polaris cannot refuel the F-35 Joint Strike Fighter model the Harper government has said it will purchase.
The Defence Department listed air-to-air refuelling as a mandatory capability for any new fighter aircraft Canada purchases, prompting some aerospace industry executives to privately question why this critical feature was ignored for the F-35 purchase. The refuelling is needed if the jets are going to cover long distances.
The Defence Department stated in an email that it "is studying options for F-35 air-to-air refueling capability."
"The analysis is at an early stage and we will inform Canadians as soon as details become available," the email said.
In an interview last summer, Tom Burbage, a senior Lockheed Martin official said he didn't think the refuelling issue would be a problem. He said the F-35 aircraft design could handle different types of refuelling systems, including those used by the Canadian Forces aerial tankers.
Canada wants to purchase the same type of F-35 being ordered by the U.S. air force. However, the F-35 being built for the U.S. navy carries the equipment needed to be refuelled by tankers such as the ones operated by the Canadian Forces.
"The airplane design can accommodate both refuelling systems," explained Burbage. "Canada has asked us to look at putting the navy refuelling system in the airplane and the air force refuelling system is already in it."
It is unclear what the cost of installing such a system would be. But sources say there are concerns that option could run into problems.
Another option to be considered would be purchasing new refuelling tankers. Military officers argue that by 2020 the Polaris aircraft might need to be replaced anyway.
The F-35 Joint Strike Fighter deal is the largest single military procurement in Canada's history but the development of the aircraft has run into problems and delays.
Earlier in January, the U.S. Defense Department issued a report noting there were variety of problems with the aircraft, including issues with engines, as well as how the aircraft handled.
But Lockheed Martin spokesman John Kent said the issues are being dealt with.
"Because the recently completed report includes information about F-35 flight testing through September of 2010, its information is dated, and the majority of the issues cited have since been resolved or are on a path to resolution," he noted.
Military officers argue that the JSF is the only aircraft that can meet Canada's future needs.
The plane is mainly designed for attacking targets on the ground as opposed to being an air-to-air fighter aircraft. That has prompted some critics to question the purchase since the main role for the planes is to patrol the country's airspace in a sovereignty protection mission.
Opposition MPs have accused the government of reneging on its promise to hold a competition.
Ottawa Citizen
© Copyright (c) The Ottawa Citizen
How much does a compatible nozzle cost?
Oh right, this is still a government program
Probably as much or more then a military toilet seat.
drogue and probe vs. boom?
I think that is what they are trying to say, but they seem to be making efforts to be unclear.
Canada is purchasing the Alpha which requires a boom but they need it equipped with the probe of the Bravo or Charlie.
Fuel and spares can be broken down into sled loads, and the pilots and ground crews can always eat the dogs if they are cut off from re-supply, eh?
I don't want to give the impression that I am opposed to equipping the Canadians with jets, eh? They come in very handy for thawing runways and hangars and for char-grilling Caribou steaks. But for any anticipated combat, I recommend the Brewster, eh?
http://www.warbirdforum.com/faf3.htm
Thanks. I’m sure for the right price, Lockheed can fix their problem with the refueling. Sounds like the Marine version would solve both the refueling and the runway problems.
There has been NOTHING good happen to this POS program since it's conception, which occurred in a whorehouse.
A green solution which should make the Libs feel all FuzzyWuzzy.
-—— Since the Jets are flying supersonic all they have to do is put a wind turbine on the front and they can have all the energy they need to fly on and on and on.
Well - they would have to have a hybrid system. Once they get up to speed and the turbine generator kicks in they can fly the rest of the time on battery generator.
Of course it will work. Kind of like the Chevy VOLT.
Well, the B model has developed a bit of a problem, you see. It seems as though the exhaust has been destroying runways, causing FOD which can be ingested, causing fatal engine damage.
But, it would come in handy for de-icing those nasty Canuck runways.
The F-35A was designed from the outset to be able to be equipped with the retractable probe of the -B and -C for FMS.
Is Mid-Air refueling really necessary?
Is Canada going on long range military expeditions? or just protecting their own?
Range of F-35A is about 1,200 nm. Canada coast to coast is about 2,000 nm just like from south to north. Especially to defend the north of Canada they'll need aerial refueling.
KC-135/KC-10 planes have had adapters for years.
Just sayin’... the adapter fits the booms
So what the problem? Just another F35 hit piece?
I’m thinking they’re trying to use the diesel fuel nozzle instead of the regular......
I remember those stupid ass problematic super duper slow nozzles they use in Californica.
That must be what they designed it after. Even NASCAR is going with “Green” nozzles.
Ether that or some gay developers decided a female re-fueling nozzle on just the receiving aircraft was sexist so all aircraft must now have male to male nozzles.
“Canadian military can’t refuel controversial fighter jet in mid-air”
No problem. They can just land them on their carriers and refuel them there. /humor
The "problem," since refuted by Lockheed Martin, is that the F-35A aircraft that are slated to be purchased by the Canadians are only capable of boom refueling. The Canadian CF-18 aircraft use the Navy style hose and drogue refueling method, so Canadian tankers are hose and drogue only.
However, the F-35B and F-35C both use hose and drogue refueling, and that space on the F-35A airframe is available to accept the same retracting refueling probe. The plan all along by the international partners is to be able to fit the F-35A with either a refueling recepticle or a refueling probe, because all non-US aircraft use the hose and drogue method of refueling.
Because of the tremendous reliance on foreign military sales for the F-35, the A model was designed from the outset to accept the refueling probe.
In my opinion, all USAF F-35As should also be equipped with the refueling probe. The KC-X will have a centerline hose system as well as two wing mounted refueling pods. The KC-10 has a centerline refueling hose, as well as some of them capable of using wing refueling pods. Some KC-135Rs are capable of using wing mounted refueling pods.
I'm unclear if the F-35A can be equipped with both a refueling probe and a boom receptical at the same time, however. But if they can, then they should.
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