Free Republic
Browse · Search
News/Activism
Topics · Post Article

Skip to comments.

British Anglicans Preparing Mass Defection to Roman Catholic Church
FOXnews ^

Posted on 01/30/2011 2:26:12 PM PST by fabrizio

LONDON -- Hundreds of disillusioned Anglicans were preparing Sunday to defect from the Church of England to the Roman Catholic Church in time for Lent, Sky News reported.

It follows a campaign by a former Anglican bishop in protest at its stance on the ordination of women and gay clergy.

Father Keith Newton has encouraged Anglicans to join the Ordinariate -- a special branch of Catholicism established by the Pope -- to welcome protestant defectors.

Despite the efforts of the Archbishop of Canterbury, Anglo Catholics have begun leaving following the conversion of three Anglican bishops in mid-January.

(Excerpt) Read more at foxnews.com ...


TOPICS: Culture/Society; Front Page News; News/Current Events; United Kingdom
KEYWORDS: anglicans; catholic; churchofengland; coe; homosexualagenda; opusdei; romesweethome
Navigation: use the links below to view more comments.
first previous 1-20 ... 121-140141-160161-180181-193 next last
To: AnAmericanMother; Vanders9

The lack of knowledge of Medieval and early modern social and economic systems is nearly complete, with knowledge of American history exiting just behind.


161 posted on 01/31/2011 5:12:40 PM PST by Lucius Cornelius Sulla ('“Our own government has become our enemy' - Sheriff Paul Babeu)
[ Post Reply | Private Reply | To 160 | View Replies]

To: Lucius Cornelius Sulla
All I can say is, I have ploughed behind a mule (just for fun, on my great-aunt's farm, closely supervised by her foreman who used the mule to put in a vegetable garden for my great-aunt. Farm was cattle, hay and sorghum. Mule's name was Snowball.) I have also helped get in hay (summer job on a cattle ranch).

Ploughing is hard, heavy work even with a modern steel plough, and haying even with modern equipment (mower, rake, stacker, baling machine) is the hardest work I've ever done. That includes roofing, laying drywall stone, and setting railroad ties for retaining walls! They say it keeps you young - I say it keeps you tired.

Moderns don't appreciate just how difficult (and deadly) pre-industrial farming was.

162 posted on 01/31/2011 5:37:28 PM PST by AnAmericanMother (Ministrix of ye Chasse, TTGC Ladies' Auxiliary (recess appointment))
[ Post Reply | Private Reply | To 161 | View Replies]

To: Mamzelle

“Is this article a problem with terminology? By “Anglican,” do they really mean Episcopalian?”

To my knowledge, there is no Episcopal church in England.
The ECUSA is a close relative of the Anglican church.

The ECUSA has been taken over by gays and neo-Marxist, and
many traditional Episcopalians have flocked to the American Anglican church, as their service was the most closely related.
Actually, many aligned themselves with the church in Africa.

After I left the USA for good in 2005, I found the Catholic church was my only choice in both Slovakia, and now in The Philippines.


163 posted on 01/31/2011 7:03:01 PM PST by AlexW
[ Post Reply | Private Reply | To 156 | View Replies]

To: livius
He didn’t favor Spain over England for any reason except that Henry was simply wrong. Incidentally, Henry was initially very pro-Catholic and actually wrote pamphlets supporting the Church and opposing the Protestants. It was just when, like Luther, he ran into something the Church wasn’t willing to allow, that he turned on the Church. Even so he never considered himself a Protestant. In any case, as the old saying go, all heresy begins below the belt. It’s always because of somebody who wants to do some sexual thing that is not permitted (this includes Luther, the Albigensians, the Cathars...you name it).

Wow, talk about oversimplification of history. I don't care where you fall on these issues, but at least bring a sharper mind to the game than that. If you don't believe that some of the popes of the those times were worldly, political hacks who were out for their own gain and kingdom, I dare you to read about the Medicis.
164 posted on 01/31/2011 8:19:58 PM PST by newguy357
[ Post Reply | Private Reply | To 61 | View Replies]

To: Lucius Cornelius Sulla
Does the average person in the pews?

OK more precisely. Does that mean the pope is endorsing Anglican practice?

165 posted on 02/01/2011 12:20:47 AM PST by Vanders9
[ Post Reply | Private Reply | To 154 | View Replies]

To: thulldud

Well that is certainly the traditional interpretation, but a lot of historians now are questioning that. Elizabeth I was a monarch who indulged in a great deal of vacillation. How much she really intended to use marriage as a weapon is questionable. Certainly the transition to James after she died was not without peril.


166 posted on 02/01/2011 12:25:25 AM PST by Vanders9
[ Post Reply | Private Reply | To 155 | View Replies]

To: Lucius Cornelius Sulla

Can you explain that statement further?


167 posted on 02/01/2011 12:31:51 AM PST by Vanders9
[ Post Reply | Private Reply | To 161 | View Replies]

To: AnAmericanMother
For what it's worth, I'm a historian too, although I admit this isn't my period.

When I said "remote", I meant in a social rather than a physical sense. Monasteries, like most of medieval society, was very socially stratified. There was the Lord Abbot at the top, who lived very well judging by the houses I've seen, there were the monks, the lay brothers, and the peasants who toiled for them. Large parts of the monastery were off-limits unless you were in the correct part of the hierarchy - for the ordinary folk for sure it was not "their" monastery.

I understand that you have to be careful bringing modern assumptions to the medieval scene, but modern thought processes and analysis are perfectly fair. After all, if we thought like medieval people now we would be clammering for an end to these twisted experiments in democracy and hygiene! :) With the benefit of hindsight and a detached view we might even be better able to understand what was going on than the people at the time.

You seem to be saying that the Monastery was no better than any other large landowner of the time. That may be true, but do we applaud it because of that? My answer is that therefore the whole system needed to be swept away - as was indeed happening. The great landholders were in decline, had been for some time. The new power was the rising mercantile classes - the bourgeoise in London, as you pointed out. To make any progress, the old order has to be dismantled. In that sense, the dissolution of the monasteries was a bit like the Highland clearances. It was unpleasant and very traumatic for the people who were still clinging to the old way of doing things, but it had to be done. I know that's harsh, because a lot of people suffered a great deal, but come on - would you want to hold onto a feudal organisation of society for ever more?

Of course I realise that there were many monasteries and some were much better run than others. Some were very decent and tried to live up to their calling, but more were no better than any other rapacious landowner. But it's a religious house. More should be expected of it than that. If it is the same as secular society, what us is it to God?

168 posted on 02/01/2011 2:31:06 AM PST by Vanders9
[ Post Reply | Private Reply | To 160 | View Replies]

To: Vanders9
Well that is certainly the traditional interpretation, but a lot of historians now are questioning that.

Historians do that. It's the way they get published and noticed, upsetting each month all the things that they said the month before.

169 posted on 02/01/2011 6:00:18 AM PST by thulldud (Is it "alter or abolish" time yet?)
[ Post Reply | Private Reply | To 166 | View Replies]

To: thulldud

Heh...yeah true.


170 posted on 02/01/2011 7:15:42 AM PST by Vanders9
[ Post Reply | Private Reply | To 169 | View Replies]

To: Vanders9
Well, the cloistered parts of a monastery, by their very nature, are NOT for everybody since it's a private residence, and more private than most -- you're not allowed to just wander into the living quarters of a rectory, either. Even a landlord isn't allowed into a tenant's apartment without permission. I don't see how that's "remote" or "stratified" - it's a simple matter of privacy. And sure there are graduations of social status . . . always have been, always will be (just try walking into a private country club some time and see what happens). Somebody has to manage a business, and he has to have authority, and his authority is indicated by certain signs (private office, company car, Bigelow on the floor, you know.)

Basically what you're saying here is that the entire system was bad and deserved to be smashed (does that include all "stratification"? Uh-oh.) But how is it a good thing that the King decides to smash only the Church and not his nobility and gentry (or the merchants in London?) This is theft pure and simple, theft from people that the King saw as his political opponents (he sent Thomas Cromwell around to collect 'evidence' to justify his actions, and Cromwell the dutiful servant obliged with 'evidence'. Given Cromwell's overall conduct, I am a bit suspicious - but of course in the end none of it did him any good.)

"They had it coming" is no explanation when it's clear that everybody "had it coming" but only the Church got it.

This was a serious injustice to the clerics who were administering their property according to the laws and rules applicable to everybody at the time. It was a serious injustice (and often terminal) to all the people who depended on them -- who were abandoned by Henry and only belatedly dealt with by the Poor Laws (which were largely ineffectual til revised by Elizabeth anyhow).

Evil is evil is evil, and justifying it by saying that the old order had to go is wrong.

171 posted on 02/01/2011 7:54:41 AM PST by AnAmericanMother (Ministrix of ye Chasse, TTGC Ladies' Auxiliary (recess appointment))
[ Post Reply | Private Reply | To 168 | View Replies]

To: Vanders9

‘Can you explain that statement further?’

Sure. The cretins now running the public schools in the US hate Western Civilization and American History and teach it very badly. As a result most folks today are ignorant of the origins of their institutions and the cost of developing them and only remember some ideological slogans about it.


172 posted on 02/01/2011 3:40:58 PM PST by Lucius Cornelius Sulla ('“Our own government has become our enemy' - Sheriff Paul Babeu)
[ Post Reply | Private Reply | To 167 | View Replies]

To: Vanders9

‘Does that mean the pope is endorsing Anglican practice?’

It means that the Church is considering having a Rite which will generally follow high church Anglican liturgical practice.


173 posted on 02/01/2011 3:46:48 PM PST by Lucius Cornelius Sulla ('“Our own government has become our enemy' - Sheriff Paul Babeu)
[ Post Reply | Private Reply | To 165 | View Replies]

To: Vanders9

‘After all, if we thought like medieval people now we would be clammering for an end to these twisted experiments in democracy and hygiene! :)’

Actually that seems to be exactly what the radical forces in the West seem to be doing these days.


174 posted on 02/01/2011 3:50:05 PM PST by Lucius Cornelius Sulla ('“Our own government has become our enemy' - Sheriff Paul Babeu)
[ Post Reply | Private Reply | To 168 | View Replies]

To: Lucius Cornelius Sulla

Does the Catholic church not have an equivalent Rite that it uses now?


175 posted on 02/02/2011 12:43:03 AM PST by Vanders9
[ Post Reply | Private Reply | To 173 | View Replies]

To: Lucius Cornelius Sulla
LOL

"All we are saying, is give soap a chance!"

176 posted on 02/02/2011 12:44:07 AM PST by Vanders9
[ Post Reply | Private Reply | To 174 | View Replies]

To: AnAmericanMother
Because the old nobility was smashed beyond repair already. They'd been hit particularly hard by the social fallout of the Black Death and the internecine struggle known as the Wars of the Roses had pretty much completed the job. Oh they struggled on for some time after, but their influence declined rapidly. After Henry VIII most of England's wars were fought over trade, not land.

The clerics were NOT administering their property according to the laws and rules applicable to everybody at the time. They had their own laws and rules and those were not the same as English common law. So how is that fair?

If evil is evil is evil, and justifying it by saying the old order is wrong, then why did the American "patriots" overthrow their lawful King and dispossess/disenfranchise or drive out all the loyalists?

177 posted on 02/02/2011 12:55:19 AM PST by Vanders9
[ Post Reply | Private Reply | To 171 | View Replies]

To: Vanders9

No, there is no Anglican Rite in the Catholic Church, just an English translation of the ‘novus ordo’ Roman Rite. Before the 1960’s we used the Latin Tridentine Mass, like everyone else in the Roman Rite in those days.


178 posted on 02/02/2011 1:38:54 AM PST by Lucius Cornelius Sulla ('“Our own government has become our enemy' - Sheriff Paul Babeu)
[ Post Reply | Private Reply | To 175 | View Replies]

To: Lucius Cornelius Sulla

So the Vatican is authorising the use of an Anglican style rite now?


179 posted on 02/02/2011 4:18:27 AM PST by Vanders9
[ Post Reply | Private Reply | To 178 | View Replies]

To: Vanders9

‘So the Vatican is authorising the use of an Anglican style rite now?’

No the Vatican is considering authorizing the use of an Anglican style rite now.


180 posted on 02/02/2011 7:57:37 PM PST by Lucius Cornelius Sulla ('“Our own government has become our enemy' - Sheriff Paul Babeu)
[ Post Reply | Private Reply | To 179 | View Replies]


Navigation: use the links below to view more comments.
first previous 1-20 ... 121-140141-160161-180181-193 next last

Disclaimer: Opinions posted on Free Republic are those of the individual posters and do not necessarily represent the opinion of Free Republic or its management. All materials posted herein are protected by copyright law and the exemption for fair use of copyrighted works.

Free Republic
Browse · Search
News/Activism
Topics · Post Article

FreeRepublic, LLC, PO BOX 9771, FRESNO, CA 93794
FreeRepublic.com is powered by software copyright 2000-2008 John Robinson