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To: Neil E. Wright
I see, all you have is ad hominem nonsense. No logic, no reason, nothing other than a juvenile temper tantrum.

Why? Because someone dared to have a different opinion than you on the internet? Because I pointed out that the law doesn't read the way that people might wish it would read?

And the best that you have is "Marxist" and "Statist"? Both contentions are laughable. Marxists have been attacking the police since the 1950s. If you actually were a police officer at one point, you would have known that. Can you point to anything "Statist" in what I've said here? Nope. I've been quite adamant that no-knock warrants need to be curtailed, and limited to very specific situations.

My responses were directed at the insane babble such as the "Plummer" and "John Bad Elk" nonsense.

You see, there is a difference between "Liberty" and "License". I love the former, I hate the latter, and so did the framers.

Here is how Liberty and License were defined at the time of the Framers:

LIB'ERTY, n. [L. libertas, from liber, free.]

1. Freedom from restraint, in a general sense, and applicable to the body, or to the will or mind. The body is at liberty, when not confined; the will or mind is at liberty, when not checked or controlled. A man enjoys liberty, when no physical force operates to restrain his actions or volitions.

2. Natural liberty, consists in the power of acting as one thinks fit, without any restraint or control, except from the laws of nature. It is a state of exemption from the control of others, and from positive laws and the institutions of social life. This liberty is abridged by the establishment of government.

3. Civil liberty, is the liberty of men in a state of society, or natural liberty, so far only abridged and restrained, as is necessary and expedient for the safety and interest of the society, state or nation. A restraint of natural liberty, not necessary or expedient for the public, is tyranny or oppression. civil liberty is an exemption from the arbitrary will of others, which exemption is secured by established laws, which restrain every man from injuring or controlling another. Hence the restraints of law are essential to civil liberty.

The liberty of one depends not so much on the removal of all restraint from him, as on the due restraint upon the liberty of others.

In this sentence, the latter word liberty denotes natural liberty.

4. Political liberty, is sometimes used as synonymous with civil liberty. But it more properly designates the liberty of a nation, the freedom of a nation or state from all unjust abridgment of its rights and independence by another nation. Hence we often speak of the political liberties of Europe, or the nations of Europe.

5. Religious liberty, is the free right of adopting and enjoying opinions on religious subjects, and of worshiping the Supreme Being according to the dictates of conscience, without external control.

6. Liberty, in metaphysics, as opposed to necessity, is the power of an agent to do or forbear any particular action, according to the determination or thought of the mind, by which either is preferred to the other.

Freedom of the will; exemption from compulsion or restraint in willing or volition.

7. Privilege; exemption; immunity enjoyed by prescription or by grant; with a plural. Thus we speak of the liberties of the commercial cities of Europe.

8. Leave; permission granted. The witness obtained liberty to leave the court.

9. A space in which one is permitted to pass without restraint, and beyond which he may not lawfully pass; with a plural; as the liberties of a prison.

10. Freedom of action or speech beyond the ordinary bounds of civility or decorum. Females should repel all improper liberties.

To take the liberty to do or say any thing, to use freedom not specially granted.

To set at liberty, to deliver from confinement; to release from restraint.

To be at liberty, to be free from restraint.

Liberty of the press, is freedom from any restriction on the power to publish books; the free power of publishing what one pleases, subject only to punishment for abusing the privilege, or publishing what is mischievous to the public or injurious to individuals.

LI'CENSE, n. [L. licentia, from liceo, to be permitted.]

1. Leave; permission; authority or liberty given to do or forbear any act. A license may be verbal or written; when written, the paper containing the authority is called a license. A man is not permitted to retail spirituous liquors till he has obtained a license.

2. Excess of liberty; exorbitant freedom; freedom abused, or used in contempt of law or decorum.

License they mean, when they cry liberty.

------------------------------------

The framers believed in ordered Liberty, based on the principles put into place by Almighty God, not libertine anarchy.

As Edmund Burke put it: "Men are qualified for civil liberty in exact proportion to their disposition to put moral chains on their own appetites... Society cannot exist unless a controlling power upon the will and appetite be placed somewhere, and the less of it there is within, the more there must be without. It is ordained in the eternal constitution of things, that men of intemperate minds cannot be free. Their passions forge their fetters."

Everything I said in this thread is backed up by fact. You might not like it, but it is reality. To go on like petulant child after reading an internet opinion does nothing but show your lack of ability to engage in reasoned discussion.

Unlike the libertines who inhabit these threads, I oppose the homosexual agenda, abortion on demand, open borders, weakening our national defense, sexual immorality, perversion, divorce, and a host of other societal ills that have got this nation in the State that it is in today.

Have you ever read the libertarian party platform? It supports abortion, the redefinition of marriage, the destruction of our culture, sexual immorality, a breakdown of the family, the homosexual agenda, open borders, and smoking dope.

That isn't freedom. It's license. Any society that embraces the above will collapse.

Libertarians (who tend to hate cops because they want to engage in perversion) do not pursue liberty, they pursue license. Don't try to claim the label Conservative and attack labels to others, when it's clear that you are anything but.

250 posted on 01/02/2011 7:45:25 PM PST by freedomwarrior998
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