Jury pool in marijuana case stages ‘mutiny’

Billings (MT) Gazette ^ | 19 December 2010 | Gwen Florio

[zeestephen]

Dusty - Notary - al_again -

I'll put together some exact citations for you over Xmas weekend.

In the meantime, perhaps some common sense and personal experience may help.

Within the last ten years I've attended HempFests in Seattle and Oregon and a SmokeIn at the University of Colorado.

Local police wandered openly among the crowds, and did nothing.

Also, can you name any well known person who went to jail for user amounts of marijuana?

Of course not.

Can you name one of your neighbors or classmates who went to jail for user amounts?

Of course not.

Oh, and if you do think of any, two can play the citation game - send me the names and court venues so I can look up the trial transcripts and see what other crimes they committed.

Have you seen any Cop reality shows that feature sting operations against people for user amounts?

Of course not.

In fact, I've seen Cop shows where they make people dump their baggies on the street or in the toilet.

Bottom line - the whole “Libertarian Outrage” thing over marijuana is based on political emotion, not fact.

By the way, I smoked weed almost every day from 1970 to 1990, and I loved every hit.

Why did I quit?

I grew up.

Took a while, but I did grow up.

[krb]

I am interested in seeing that too.

[raygun]

what?

[Notary Sojac]

If you are correct, then we could remove the legal penalties for possession of "personal use quantities" without changing much of what happens in real life.

In that case we should do it.

There should not be laws which are enforced based upon the personal discretion of the police.

Neither should we give prosecutors the option to use victimless crimes as a "handle" to arrest people when they suspect a more serious crimes but don't have the evidence (which appears to be the case in this Montana bust).

We'd be better off to bust everybody with a single bud on their possession and clog up the courts with those cases (including all the doctors', lawyers', city officials', and cops' kids). It would force awareness of the real implications of the law.

[dusttoyou]

What happened top the question “Anything to verify its fact not just your imagination”?

Guessing proof is in the pudding.

Merry Christmas!

[zeestephen]

“What happened top the question “Anything to verify its fact not just your imagination”?”

---

You didn't read - or understand - the very first sentence in my reply:

“I'll put together some exact citations for you over Xmas weekend.”

So, after a long afternoon nap, I Googled the FBI, Department of Justice, and DEA websites.

Tough work, but someone has to do it.

(1) Roughly 100,000 drug offenders are incarcerated in Federal prisons.

95% for drug dealing.

5% (5,000) of them for drug possession.

That 5,000 includes possession for ALL drug types, not just marijuana.

Sources: William J. Sabol, Bureau of Justice Statistics, Department of Justice, December 2008, page 22, Appendix Table 12 - Christopher Mumola, Department of Justice, October 2006, page 4

(2) I did multiple search titles for info on first time offenders serving time for possession of user amounts of marijuana in federal prisons.

I can find no record that any such prisoners exist.

(3) Roughly 255,000 drug offenders are held in state prisons.

Source: William J. Sabol, “Prisoners in 2007,” Department of Justice, December 2008, page 21, Appendix Table 10

(4) Only 4,000 state prisoners are incarcerated for marijuana possession.

There is no data on the quantity of marijuana they possessed, or if they had previous convictions.

I can find no data that indicates any of those state prisoners are first time offenders who possessed user amounts of marijuana.

Source: DEA, 2008 Marijuana Sourcebook, page 10

(5) According to NORML.org, there were 860,000 marijuana arrests in 2009.

I can find dozens of links on NORML’s website to stories about peaceful, law abiding dealers going to jail.

I cannot find one link on NORML to any story about peaceful, law abiding users going to jail for possession of small amounts of marijuana.

Let's do the math.

There were 860,000 arrests for marijuana in 2009.

At most, there were 6,000 federal and state prisoners serving time for marijuana possession.

I stand by my original statement, Dusty....

“The number of recreational (but otherwise law abiding) users in jail is close to zero.”

[dusttoyou]

Appears your report dispels your original contention.

[zeestephen]

“Appears your report dispels your original contention.”

---

If you back that up with a coherent argument I’ll be happy to respond.

[aruanan]

In his nearly 30 years as a prosecutor and judge, Deschamps said he’s never seen anything like it.

Get ready, Deschamps. You're going to see it more and more. One of the purposes of a jury is to nullify laws in advance of their repeal or to slam over-zealous prosecutors.

[zeestephen]

Re: Marijuana Stats

(1) Roughly 100,000 drug offenders are incarcerated in Federal prisons.

95% for drug dealing.

5% (5,000) of them for drug possession.

That 5,000 includes possession for ALL drug types, not just marijuana.

Sources: William J. Sabol, Bureau of Justice Statistics, Department of Justice, December 2008, page 22, Appendix Table 12 - Christopher Mumola, Department of Justice, October 2006, page 4

(2) I did multiple search titles for info on first time offenders serving time for possession of user amounts of marijuana in federal prisons.

I can find no record that any such prisoners exist.

(3) Roughly 255,000 drug offenders are held in state prisons.

Source: William J. Sabol, “Prisoners in 2007,” Department of Justice, December 2008, page 21, Appendix Table 10

(4) Only 4,000 state prisoners are incarcerated for marijuana possession.

There is no data on the quantity of marijuana they possessed, or if they had previous convictions.

I can find no data that indicates any of those state prisoners are first time offenders who possessed user amounts of marijuana.

Source: DEA, 2008 Marijuana Sourcebook, page 10

(5) According to NORML, there were 860,000 marijuana arrests in 2009.

I can find dozens of links on NORML’s website to stories about peaceful, law abiding dealers going to jail.

I cannot find one link on NORML to any story about peaceful, law abiding users going to jail for possession of small amounts of marijuana.

Source: NORML.org

---

Bottom line...

There were 860,000 arrests for marijuana in 2009.

At most, there were 6,000 federal and state prisoners serving time for marijuana possession.

I cannot find one citation that even one of those 6,000 prisoners was a first time offender with user amounts of marijuana.

I stand by my original statement:

“The number of recreational (but otherwise law abiding) users in jail is close to zero.”

[zeestephen]

“Neither should we give prosecutors the option to use victimless crimes as a “handle” to arrest people when they suspect a more serious crimes but don't have the evidence.”

---

You make several good points.

In many urban areas close to 40% of the prisoners in city or county lockup are drug possession cases.

Police use it as prima facie evidence for arrest.

Prosecutors use it as a negotiating tool.

[Trailerpark Badass]

You argue like an idiot.

You may actually be an idiot.

But your posts are boring and stupid as all get out.

Unlike Walt, I don't like you, judging from your idiotic, hyperbolic inanities.

Pretty soon it will be only douchebags like you left here, and the few new sign-ups who take a little longer to get bored with your stupid ad hominems.

I literally don't know how you can sincerely post the crap you do. Your whole family should be ashamed of you.

[ansel12]

But your posts are boring and stupid as all get out.

My post has stirred great passion in you, thanks for recording such a strong and deeply felt response as you made to me.

[Notary Sojac]

Ever hear the old saying about why one should not wrestle with a pig? Stay out of the sty, FRiend.

[Notary Sojac]

Your stats may well be right. In that case, I stand by my contention that a law against personal possession of small quantities is a law which the police and prosecutors choose to enforce or not enforce at their individual discretion. No such laws should exist in a free republic.