Russian-Indian second prototype T-50 fighter to fly in 2011

Stolen US technology and designs, as usual.

Not an aeronautical expert, but those pics do look a little familiar.

Looks heavy to me.

Just sayin, it does not appear to be a highly maneuverable fighter. Just a bomber that will make a big bright spot when shot down.

They should add a Turkish designer. Recall that MIG was an acronym for the designers Mikoyan and Gurevich with I (y) being the joining word. Now we have the Sukhoi people and the Hindustan builder working on this new fighter. Adding a Turk designer, then, leads to the natural acronym for their new a/c being one SHIT a/c.

those are internal air to air stores...

5th Gen and it's STILL designed with a built in blind spot in the rear... go figure

LOL

*POOF*

Heh Heh

“Hey Bubba, you see that fire in the sky last night?” LOL They sure do look purdy when lit off at night all the same! ;)

We don’t need no stinkin 6!

LOL

Looks heavy to me. Just sayin, it does not appear to be a highly maneuverable fighter. Just a bomber that will make a big bright spot when shot down.

It is actually going to be one of the most maneuverable fighters in the world. Please find below some basic information on the PakFa that I had posted on FR a couple months ago that is still pertinent. Bottom line ...there is a good possibility that the only thing that will be more lethal in the air-to-air role will be the Raptor (i.e. the PakFa will not be as good as the Raptor - the ATF competition that spawned the YF-22 and YF-23 tussle was meant to produce a machine that would match future Soviet superfighters like adcaned T-10 series like the SU-35, and future Soviet stealthy fighters like the T-50 ....however, the T-50 PakFa will be better than any of the advanced Eurocanards like the Typhoon/Rafale/Gripen; and in the air to air role it is arguable whether the F-35 will maintain an advantage. To those who were saying the F-22 is 'useless,' it seems that having a superior airframe - rust and all - just became important again). As for the T-50 PakFa, a more interesting exercise would be to scrutinize the Chinese JXX stealthy fighter concept once it is revealed. It is the JXX, not the PakFa, that American Airforce and Naval Aviators would most probably have to face if something went wrong. The Russians and Indians will NOT sell the PakFa to the Chinese (since the PakFa, together with their S-400 SAM system and S-500 concept, will be their main deterrent against Chinese air in the future). The main next-gen potential aerial adversary US aviators may face will be the JXX, not the T-50 PakFa.

Anyways, here is my post from September:

Finished a BIG move, thus while I had seen the thread and responses before I did not have a cogent opportunity to comment on some of those responses. Thus I will coalesce my thoughts in one post, addressed to different posters.

SKEETER: 'This is China’s headache more than America’s.'

Absolutely correct. The Pak Fa (and the production version, whether it will be called the SU-50 or the SU-41 or SU-51 ...it will most probably end with an odd number since it is primarily air-to-air, and the fact the prototype is called T-50 doesn't necessarily mean it will be SU-50) was geared by Russia and India to face off against their main potential foe-country ....China. Not the US, but China. China has been increasing its military strength both in terms of quality and quantity, and Russia and India both needed something that would maintain a significant qualitative edge against anything Sino. The Pak Fa would not defeat a Raptor (the F-22 is truly a superlative machine) ...but it will knock out any J-11, J-10 or (future Low observable concept) JXX. With ease.

THUNDERSLEEPS: 'Will that beast be able to turn in the air? It is longer than any other fighter, even the “big” F-14, F-15, and F-22s. I thought it was supposed to replace the MIG-29, a top-shelf dogfighter. Sure, the new bird has thrust vector engines but that’s still a lot of airframe to twist into a turn... The longer it is, the more airframe you’ve got to drag through a turn, bleeding off energy (speed).'

That is not accurate. The PakFa will be FAR more maneuverable than the F-14, F-15, and MiG-29. It's aerodynamic capability may even be better in some regimes than the Raptor even. It has LERXs, 3-Dimensional thrust vectoring, and all-moving canted tails (the Raptor has no LERXs, 2-D rather than 3-D TVC, and doesn't have all moving tails). Whether or not it will be more agile than the Raptor remains to be seen ....what is fact though is that it will be more agile than any other current or proposed manned fighter. (See graphics below).

Furthermore, in terms of size I do not understand why people always make it seem like a gigantic fighter! It is smaller than the SU-30 (actually noticeably smaller), and the SU-30 is one of the most maneuverable fighters around (far more than the F-15, and FAR MORE than the F-14). Again, see picture below:

It is more or less the same size as a Raptor and the proposed YF-23 Blackwidow. Thus, I do not know why people always claim it is 'too long' and 'not maneuverable,' when the fact is that it is smaller and more compact than the SU-30 (and the same size as the Raptor), and is one of the most maneuverable airframes out there.

BILL M: 'Compare the engine exhaust profiles for this one and the F22. BIG IR signature for this guy!'

True, in terms of IR signature the Raptor is MILES ahead of the PakFa prototype. Note four things however:

1) This is still the prototype version. There is definitely room for growth between now and the final version. For instance, look below at the differences between the YF-22 prototype and the final F-22.

2) The F-22 was created from the start to be the best darn fighter the world has ever seen. It had all-aspect stealth, among other goodies. This was because it was meant to be a 'deep-IADS penetrator,' able to penetrate the most advanced IADS (integrated air defence networks armed with the latest SAM systems) unscathed. To kick down the door in enemy territory. the only other manned deep-IADS penetrator is the B-2 bomber (the F-35 does not EVEN begin to get close to that). The PakFa however is meant to defend over HOME territory. Different purposes, thus different solutions.

3) Look at the F-35 JSF. It has the hottest burning most powerful single jet engine on the planet, with a nozzle that has to be one of the most unstealthy this side of a Vought F-8 Crusader! One of the worst IR signatures flying ....yet ...silence.

4) The Russians have worked on stealthy nozzles before, thus the final version may have something. Again ...as usual ...here is the pudding to act as proof (a SU-30 with a nozzle concept that looks quite ...familiar ...)

Is the PakFa a Raptor killer? Nope, it is MOST definitely NOT. However, it is not the dog some try to make it seem, and will be better than 99% of the stuff flying out there that do not have 'Raptor' in their name brackets.

Now that the Rooskies have had all their tech reverse engineered by the Chicoms they’re going to get a few years of sales from the Indians...and then the Indians will do it to them. Brazil next?

thx... i still can't understand why the built in blind spot in the back though since none of our planes have had one for generations, and they do seem to copy heavily from our designs...

Woah.

Whiskey Tango Foxtrot, over.

WOW.

I think I may have missed your post some months back....

LOL. Nice use of WTF (never seen it put that way before). Have a blessed day.

i still can't understand why the built in blind spot in the back though since none of our planes have had one for generations, and they do seem to copy heavily from our designs

The cartoon in post #2 is not the PAK FA. Look again at the pictures posted in post #10, and you will see a full 180° view cockpit canopy.

thx...