I know God not as a result of any intellectual effort on my or anyone’s part but because He has made Himself known to me. The revelation of God to His followers, and others, is the a priori of reformation. No amount of rational discourse changes this truth. It is true because God has said it is true. This is the stumbling stone against which rationalists crash and burn.
Dialog among believers strengthens faith and encourages understanding. Because knowledge of (the existence of) God does not come through rational effort it is meaningless to argue the merits of belief on rational grounds. God exists because He who is within me says He exists. I stake my life and my soul upon that knowledge.
And here we have an irreconcilable difference. As far as I can tell the only way to understand the universe is by examining it rationally.
Well, that'll have to be it for tonight. It's been a hoot, but I have to get up in the morning for a friend's 50th anniversary party.
Because knowledge of (the existence of) God does not come through rational effort it is meaningless to argue the merits of belief on rational grounds.
***I actually find great meaning in examining and discussing it on rational grounds.
I first start out with historical standards, such as whether or not Columbus sailed the ocean in 1492, whether John Adams was the 2nd president of the US, whether Julius Caesar existed in history or was invented. The overwhelming physical and historical evidence for those 3 figures in history is exactly the same level of historical evidence for Jesus as a historical figure.
Next, I examine why Jesus was put to death. No one denies that he died on a cross ~2000 years ago. Even his enemies claim he was put to death for blasphemy, for claiming equality with God.
So now we have rationally arrived at the most important discussion in history: Whether or not Jesus was God Himself.
When discussing this subject, I have seen such irrational positions as “well, we can’t rely on ANY history”.
note name change per this thread.