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Scientists deliver message to NJ Gov. Chris Christie: Climate change is real and it is man-made
northjersey.com ^ | 12.07.10 | MATT FRIEDMAN

Posted on 12/08/2010 3:59:15 PM PST by Coleus

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To: Coleus; Defendingliberty; WL-law; Normandy; TenthAmendmentChampion; FrPR; enough_idiocy; ...
 


Beam me to Planet Gore !

41 posted on 12/08/2010 5:09:52 PM PST by steelyourfaith (ObamaCare Death Panels: a Final Solution to the looming Social Security crisis ?)
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To: Frantzie

Christie should be able to identify which departments at the university to de-fund.


42 posted on 12/08/2010 5:10:58 PM PST by pointsal
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To: danielmryan
Come to think of it: has there ever been any independently-verified inventory of the total amount of CO2 emitted by human sources, and a demonstration that it accounts for the increase in atmospheric CO2?

The inventory comes from fossil fuel consumption, cement making and (to a smaller extent) forest clearing data. Those give a fairly precise figure for the amount of CO2 produced each year. Next those are compared to the natural increase for each year (the caveat being that the natural increase fluctuates with the NH growing season, so year to year growth has to be used).

It turns out that manmade CO2 is about double the rise observed in the atmosphere. That means nature is absorbing 1/2 of the "extra" which also means that there is and will be no such thing as a positive feedback from CO2 to warming to more CO2. It is all negative and will probably get more negative. Water vapor is another story, but it's a story about weather and has not been shown to produce large positive feedbacks.

43 posted on 12/08/2010 5:15:39 PM PST by palmer (Cooperating with Obama = helping him extend the depression and implement socialism.)
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To: danielmryan
These AGW scientists have a theory, CO2 traps infrared on its way back to outer space. So they program computers with this theory, munged up with an extremely poor historic database of world temperature series, and project global warming from this mess. However when these computer programs are back tested, they fail miserably at matching recent high quality temperature series, both in trend, magnitude, and shape.

These climate models are FUBAR, and a scientist with any integrity would divulge this up front. What they are left with is "we have no idea what the climate will be like ten years from now" - but it is likely to be much the same as it is now - yawn! As it was 50 years ago by my limited experience.

44 posted on 12/08/2010 5:15:59 PM PST by GregoryFul (Obama - Jim Jones redux)
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To: Coleus

One of those three protesting climate scientists, Alan Robock, is getting NOAA grants. Don’t stop his gravy train!!!

http://webcache.googleusercontent.com/search?q=cache:fTAFRaXUOJsJ:www.climate.noaa.gov/index.jsp%3Fpg%3D/cpo_pa/cpo_pa_index.jsp%26pa%3Dcppa%26sub%3Drobock_GC03-393.jsp+%22Alan+Robock%22+grants&cd=5&hl=en&ct=clnk&gl=us

I did not delve into the other two scientests


45 posted on 12/08/2010 5:16:51 PM PST by dennisw (- - - -He who does not economize will have to agonize - - - - - Confucius)
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To: Coleus

Can someone run a search on their political giving...


46 posted on 12/08/2010 5:19:15 PM PST by tubebender (If you can not read, this thread will tell you how to get help)
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To: struggle
“I've heard over 100 different arguments about why we shouldn’t accept global warming. They're all fallacious and I'd be happy to point out the errors in any of them,” said Rutgers professor Alan Robock, a meteorologist.

In 2008, the Farmers Almanac stated that the earth had entered a global cooling period that would probably last decades. The journal based its prediction on sunspot cycles. Said contributing meteorologist Joseph D’Aleo, “Studying these and other factor suggests that cold, not warm, climate may be our future.”
(Joseph D’Aleo is a Certified Consultant meteorologist and co-founder of The Weather Channel. He was chairman of the American Meteorological Society's Committee on Weather Analysis and Forecasting.)

Florida Farmers Assess Freeze Damage

Hey Alan...let's see your record of real life predictions...computer modeling doesn't count.

47 posted on 12/08/2010 5:22:49 PM PST by Tex-Con-Man
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To: struggle

Yeah, they shoulda picked a warmer day...


48 posted on 12/08/2010 5:25:10 PM PST by flowerplough (Pennsylvania today - New New Jersey meets North West Virginia. Or maybe we're North Alabama.)
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To: pburgh01
I'm not sure how useful that analogy is since the few cups of additive in the swimming pool (natural CO2 in the natural atmosphere) make the difference between warm and rather cold (water vapor alone is not going to keep the earth warm).

My preference in those cases is the political argument. Use the swimming pool and show us shrinking our economy when we take out a few cups of water (CO2 is proportional to economic activity). Now show China dumping gallons in (they are building two coal based power plants a week). The science is hopelessly politicized since the government has bought the research results they want (that calls for more government control). So at this point politics should be the preferred mode of argument.

49 posted on 12/08/2010 5:25:35 PM PST by palmer (Cooperating with Obama = helping him extend the depression and implement socialism.)
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To: GregoryFul
These AGW scientists have a theory, CO2 traps infrared on its way back to outer space. So they program computers with this theory, munged up with an extremely poor historic database of world temperature series, and project global warming from this mess

GW from CO2 and increased CO2 is a pretty well-tested theory. The simplest models are just a small slice of atmosphere and the radiation is calculated and more is trapped as more CO2 is added. The models you are talking about are global circulation models that are too coarse (in both time and space) to properly model weather. So they are fed parameters instead of figuring out the weather. But the weather will change with warming (see Eschenbach's writings). Also the models don't consider external influences on weather, like the Russian heat wave caused by blocking which can be caused by our current low solar ultraviolet levels or other solar/celestial factors (the link is imprecise but real and there is no link from CO2 to blocking).

So the models can easily be jiggered (by the parameters) to match whatever temperature series they want, both backwards and forwards. It is simple GIGO.

50 posted on 12/08/2010 5:34:39 PM PST by palmer (Cooperating with Obama = helping him extend the depression and implement socialism.)
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To: GregoryFul
when these computer programs are back tested, they fail miserably at matching recent high quality temperature series, both in trend, magnitude, and shape.

In other words, their computer models are the computational equivalent of an unreplicable experiment. The cold-fusion duo, Pons and Fleischmann, got hoofed out of the scientific pale because their results couldn't be replicated.

Is it I, or is there some sort of double standard here? Why is it that two guys who promised to help solve the energy crisis got the old-fashioned heave-ho, while a tight-knit citation circle of doomsayers get the new-fashioned coddle for substantially the same lacuna?

51 posted on 12/08/2010 5:39:00 PM PST by danielmryan
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To: Andy from Chapel Hill

thanks for the heads up.


52 posted on 12/08/2010 5:39:00 PM PST by Coleus (The Immaculate Conception: O Mary, conceived without sin, Pray for us, who have recourse to Thee)
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To: SECURE AMERICA

The climate changes everyday and has since the beginning of time and will continue to do so regardless of what a bunch of scientists want. >>>

that’s the way God made the world but the progressive humanists in academia and part of the global warming agenda don’t want to hear of this...


53 posted on 12/08/2010 5:40:33 PM PST by Coleus (The Immaculate Conception: O Mary, conceived without sin, Pray for us, who have recourse to Thee)
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To: pburgh01
Thanks - you confirmed my earlier suspicions. I asked someone about the same issue, and I should get a link or citation in the answer.
54 posted on 12/08/2010 5:41:35 PM PST by danielmryan
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To: Frantzie
Any “scientists” dumb enough to live in Jersey “can’t” be that smart.

[Snort...] Actually, Cape May is lovely - a true holder of the motto "The Garden State". Elizabeth? Well...

55 posted on 12/08/2010 5:45:51 PM PST by COBOL2Java (Obama is the least qualified guy in whatever room he walks into.)
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To: pburgh01

Earth worship, the new state religion.


56 posted on 12/08/2010 5:48:58 PM PST by dila813
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To: COBOL2Java

South Jersey is a nice and the parts in the NW and Sussex County are nice. NJ need a neutron bomb. Some of the people who have lived their for a long time and pay taxes are nice but the state is filled with loads of liberal and illegal alien mutants. Still - by electing Christie there is hope. NY is hopeless.


57 posted on 12/08/2010 5:57:20 PM PST by Frantzie (Imam Ob*m* & Democrats support the VICTORY MOSQUE & TV supports Imam)
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To: COBOL2Java

Best tomatoes any where.


58 posted on 12/08/2010 5:58:17 PM PST by Frantzie (Imam Ob*m* & Democrats support the VICTORY MOSQUE & TV supports Imam)
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To: Coleus

” “I’ve heard over 100 different arguments about why we shouldn’t accept global warming. They’re all fallacious and I’d be happy to point out the errors in any of them,” said Rutgers professor Alan Robock, a meteorologist.”

Then post em on the Internet Robock. You are a liar “professor.” Point out the errors in any of them.


59 posted on 12/08/2010 6:00:21 PM PST by Frantzie (Imam Ob*m* & Democrats support the VICTORY MOSQUE & TV supports Imam)
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To: pburgh01; dila813
The amount of CO2 emitted by man to the atmosphere in 2006 if we were to think about it in terms of a liquid would be one and half drops out of an eye dropper into an Olympic sized swimming pool.

Let's see if this is right:

Weight of the atmosphere: 5 x 10^15 metric tons
CO2 emitted in 2007: 2.93 x 10^7 metric tons

So the 2007 CO2 added 1 part in 1.6 x 10^8 to the atmosphere.

An Olympic sized swimming pool contains at least 2.5 x 10^6 liters of water.

There are about 20 drops in a milliliter or 20000 in a liter, so there are 5 x 10^10 drops in an Olympic sized pool.

So as far as relative mass is concerned, the CO2 addition in one year is more like 300 drops from an eyedropper in an OSSP, or about 15 ml or 1 Tablespoon of water in an Olympic sized pool

60 posted on 12/08/2010 6:05:40 PM PST by wideminded
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