Posted on 11/30/2010 11:42:20 PM PST by rxsid
Obviously officers can issue some lawful orders. That is a duh. All that matters, though, is whether they can LAWFULLY issue the orders they gave Lakin. Lind said those orders have nothing to do with the President; they are independent of the President.
But those orders were orders for Lakin to deploy in the use of force, which Congress only gave the President the authority to do. Lakin’s orders are ABSOLUTELY tied to the President, because nobody but the President has the authority to use force - which means to order the chain of command to do what is necessary to use force.
No President, no lawful orders to use force.
No President, and brigade commanders are acting beyond their authority if they order somebody to Afghanistan in the use of force.
If Obama is not Constitutionally allowed to “act as President” (and he’s not, because he failed to qualify by Jan 20, 2009 - and he was arguably never even lawfully declared the electoral winner) then the orders he issued were not lawful because nobody authorized to use force issued the orders. Without a President’s decision to use force, all the under-officers acted beyond their authority so their orders are similarly not lawful.
You can argue that Obama’s orders had to be obeyed anyway because of the de facto officer doctrine. But that doesn’t make them lawful, according to the elements of Article 92.
And it doesn’t work to say that Lakin’s orders are independent of the POTUS AND to say that he still has to obey them because of the de facto officer doctrine. Either Lakin’s orders are associated with the POTUS or not. If Obama has nothing to do with Lakin’s orders from the brigade commanders, then all that matters is whether the brigade commanders could lawfully give those particular orders to Lakin. Lakin’s brigade commanders are not de facto officers so de facto has nothing to do with Lakin, if Lind’s claim is true. But
In that event all that matters is whether Lakin’s brigade commanders have authority to deploy Lakin in the use of force. If no President ordered the use of force, then the brigade commanders don’t have authority - since only the President has the authority to use force - and their orders to Lakin are beyond their authority.
You can’t have it both ways. Either Lakin’s orders are connected to the POTUS, or they aren’t. If they’re not connected to POTUS, then the brigade commanders had no authority to give them.
If you choose to live in the delusion of your own making, so be it. It will bring you no comfort and you will never see it validated.
#1 is the one I already addressed. There is no way to know if it is Obama’s COLB because the print is illegible. But it appears to be missing 2 line that are on Obama’s alleged COLB. Right under the fold should be FATHER’S NAME, with BARACK HUSSEIN OBAMA directly underneath. Those 2 lines are missing. This really doesn’t even seem to be the same COLB.
#2 is the other one I talked about, where the circle on the top fold distorts but the “authenticating seal” doesn’t.
#5 similarly doesn’t bend with the fold.
#6 similarly doesn’t bend with the fold, although with the right side of the paper held down the page is flat enough that it shouldn’t necessarily bend.
#7 there’s no way to know if it’s Obama’s COLB or not.
So I’ve addressed all of these. None of them has a seal that bends with the fold, although #2 and #5 have angles that would REQUIRE it to noticeably bend.
Do what I did. For #2 and #5, take a piece of plastic or an overhead transparency and press it against your computer screen. With permanent marker trace the outline of the circle that is on the top fold and then trace the outline of the “seal”. Take the transparency and lay it against a plain sheet of paper and just look at it where your eyes don’t try to make it 3D. Figure out the radius of the top circle and draw a circle of that size; then compare the folded top circle with a true circle to see how the shape differs. Do the same thing with the “seal” and see how the shape of the supposedly folded “seal” compares with a perfect circle.
You can do the same thing with all of these photos. That “seal” is and remains round on all of them, regardless of what the paper it’s supposedly on does.
I have not ignored any of the photos. There is not one photo that proves there was a 3-dimensional seal really on a piece of paper having Obama’s name on it. But there are 2 images of a “seal” on Obama’s COLB that doesn’t bend when it’s supposed to, and one image of a seal on a COLB other than the one with Obama’s name on it.
No images proving a real “seal”. Two images strongly suggesting a “Photoshopped” seal. Two images that are inconclusive of anything. That’s what Factcheck posted.
#8 there’s no way of knowing whether that is from the COLB with Obama’s name on it. So another image that is inconclusive.
The truth just is what it is, whether anybody “validates” it or not. All we can do is either believe the truth, remain agnostic about it, or violate it.
The authority to use force was given only to the President. Anybody else “using appropriate force” without valid Presidential orders is acting out of line - giving orders beyond their authority, which renders those orders “not lawful” according to the very definitions of Article 92.
That’s just the truth. It is what it is. Unless you can show me someplace where Congress grants military officers the authority to use force without the President being involved, I have no choice but to believe this is the truth.
As they say, "the buck stops there." If that buck is phony as a $3 bill, it ain't worth crap.
Thanks for that. Excellent history lesson.
Check out post 195. Bit of a history lesson for you revisionists...
Let me know if you need help with any of the big words.
Nothing in 195 changes anything I said. If you were capable of handling big words, or had the slightest ability at “legal calculus,” you’d know that already.
Let me know when any court in this nation lends the slightest credence to your bluster. Until then, I’ll take the sand bag.
What are you, a 9th Circus justice? Our legal system these days couldn't rule correctly on if water was wet.
I notice you STILL don't make even a half-assed attempt at giving any citations or links to back up your bluster. All you do is say that those sources posted, including the MCM I posted earlier, don't matter and YOU know better.
Not that I expect any out of blowhard newbies like you. Run along now while the adults talk.
Actually, I'm appealing to the Constitution, which is what the most recent cases have specifically cited. I've asked you to read it, but that seems beyond your capabilities.
What are you, a 9th Circus justice? Our legal system these days couldn't rule correctly on if water was wet.
Nice meaningless folksy ad hominem. That's what people who don't know what they're talking about do.
I notice you STILL don't make even a half-assed attempt at giving any citations or links to back up your bluster. All you do is say that those sources posted, including the MCM I posted earlier, don't matter and YOU know better.
I've told you the relevant section and article in the Constitution, the Article of the United States Code in which the relevant statues, including the UCMJ, reside, and told you the legal case in which to find a succinct, lucid explanation of the above. If you've got too much of a dead corpse intellect to make it from there, that's your problem.
And you don't actually understand where the MCM fits in all that, do you?
Not that I expect any out of blowhard newbies like you. Run along now while the adults talk.
If you're capable of identifying adult talk, let me know where they are. Anything would beat this.
Please tell us why Congress..authorized the President.. the authority to convene Courts Martial.
Was it because his orders and the officers and NCOs representing him are followed.
It is law all orders and regulations represent the President.
Perhaps this is their goal.
We who are retired can speak this..those on active duty must hold their voice.
LTC Lakin crossed the Rubicon..now we are in dangerous territory and you know it.
If an innocent LTC Lakin is convicted to protect an illegal obama there may be collisions.
History Lesson:
The Framers of the Constitution were cognizant of the power struggle between Parliament and the King regarding the powers of the military. Many of the Framers were combat veterans from the Continental Army and understood the demands of military life and the need for a well-disciplined fighting force. The solution to the government of the armed forces was a classic balancing of constitutional interests and powers. They assured that Congress - with its responsiveness to the population, its fact-finding ability, and its collective deliberative processes - would provide for the government of the armed forces.
The Framers of the Constitution had a great respect for the value of separation of powers. One of the primary goals of the Constitutional Convention, in remedying the defects of the Articles of Confederation, was to create a government in which separate branches of power served as a check and balance against the other. Principles of separation of powers also applied to the military. The Framers vested power in the executive and legislative branches, but left the judiciary with only a collateral role in governing the armed forces.
By distributing power over the armed forces between the legislative and executive branches, the Framers "avoided much of the political-military power struggle which typified so much of the early history of the British court-martial system." Moreover, the Framers made it clear that while the command of the military lie with the executive, the military would be governed and regulated according to the law handed down by the legislative branch. Therefore, the government of the armed forces would always reflect the will of the people as expressed through their representatives in Congress.
If I read anything..making obama a natural born citizen I would cease posting..on the subject..but I have found nothing supporting obama. We are in the mists of a Civil War.. the Courts must intervene..but I am afraid it is too late..the die was cast..with the passing of the 14th Amendment and the fraudulent election of obama. The republicans and the democrats are nothing more than pawns for trinkets.
Buck up! We lost an election in 2008. It happens. That didn't doom us. We won back one house of Congress in 2010. It happens. That doesn't guarantee victory in 2012. Victory will go to the side that keeps its head, crafts a plan, and rides it with a little luck. Talk of a Civil War ain't gonna’ cut it.
If you haven't read anything supporting Obama as a natural born citizen, you should read more. There's a court case from last year that specifically said he was. Whether you agree or not, that's a lot stronger pedigree than anything the birthers have got. So get over it. And whining about the 14th Amendment 143 years after the fact ain't winning any elections either.
The die is never cast. The future belongs to what Reagan asked us to be, the happy warriors who don't lose their heads over nonsense.
**** the wolves. America has kicked their tails before, and we will do it again.
The 14h amendment cannot make a natural born citizen any more than a box of cracker jacks.
The word natural means descent..posterity..means descent..forefathers means descent..obama has no claim to any of the above..
Obama has no kindren blood to our ancestors...would George Washington or Thomas Jefferson accept him as their kindred blood..you know the answer.
>The future belongs to what Reagan asked us to be, the happy warriors who don’t lose their heads over nonsense.
I find it somewhat amusing how oft-toted Reagan is to people who wish to link ‘conservatism’ to the Republican party; being under 30, I have no actual memories of him on the political-scene and so, according to my experience, Regan was an abnormality. Furthermore, the Republican party plays the “bitter gun-and-bible clinging” people for fools:
When was the last time they pushed for ACTUAL responsible spending, even to the point of ending big/popular social programs?
When was the last time they, AS A PARTY, even symbolically proposed a law to outlaw abortions federally*? How about a Constitutional amendment to spit in the faces of those black-robed tyrants who declare themselves to be higher than the Constitution?
Hell, as a party, the Democrats are at least honest! They at least strive for what they say they’re going to strive for!
As far as I’m concerned, this 112th Congress is the Republican-party’s Last Chance... if they don’t “perform as advertised” I’m going to the Constitution Party, or perhaps I’ll make my own**.
*An actual stated Republican party plank.
**How does “The American Ammunition Party” sound?
That IF is a pretty big one too.
There’s no real evidence he _was_ born in HI; and the multiple inconsistencies in the stories presented by him and his close family *do* add to that suspicion.
The 14h amendment cannot make a natural born citizen any more than a box of cracker jacks.
The word natural means descent..posterity..means descent..forefathers means descent..obama has no claim to any of the above..
Obama has no kindren blood to our ancestors...would George Washington or Thomas Jefferson accept him as their kindred blood..you know the answer.
Ahem...
In your case, we seem to be at the root of this, don't we? And it really has nothing to do with the Constitution or the law. I'll let your own words speak for you, because they do so distastefully enough. It's a nice bit of "blood and soil," though. Would fit right in with some of America's historical enemies.
Let's just say I think somewhat more highly of the ideals of this country than you.
P.S. That stuff definitely is not an election winner. Keep it in the closet.
There is much more to post 195...all orders flow from the president”..”all orders issued by officers do so on behalf of the president”..these clowns have been shown this many times..but..it makes LTC Lakin innocent..so they ignore it to protect their golden calf aka obama.
They are obama trolls.
This needs to be turned into a very well written book.
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