Netherlands Threatened by Dutch Weapons? (Venezuela)

Radio Netherlands ^ | Nov. 23, 2010

[sukhoi-30mki]

Netherlands Threatened by Dutch Weapons?

(Source: Radio Netherlands; issued Nov. 23, 2010)

Four Italian-made frigates set out from the Venezuelan port city of Puerto Cabello in the middle of the night. They lead a fleet including amphibious landing craft and service ships, on their way to invade Aruba, Bonaire and Curaçao, three Caribbean islands forming part of the Kingdom of the Netherlands. A Dutch 'Falklands war' has begun.

This is a nightmare scenario that Dutch military planners must nonetheless take into account, given Venezuelan leader Hugo Chávez's repeated threats over the last two years. Political leaders on the three islands downplay the threat, but Venezuela looms large, literally and figuratively, on the three islands. The closest, Aruba, lies just 27 kilometres off Venezuela's coast.

But at the same time, a Dutch company is equipping the Venezuelan navy with combat management systems and other guidance systems.

No violation

Lars Wormgoor, spokesman for [Thales Nederland], a Dutch company specialising in defence communication systems, says his company is equipping eight Spanish-made corvettes with sophisticated combat management systems. The ships will also be fitted with radio and electronic sensors for search and target tracking.

The boats will become part of the Venezuelan navy, in a deal worth 250 million euro. Mr Wormgoor says the contract with the Venezuelan navy is in line with Dutch government policy.

But researcher Frank Slijper from the Dutch organisation Campaign against the Weapons Trade (Campagne tegen Wapenhandel), says the Dutch government is violating its own guidelines:

"We've found that, in a lot of cases, the criteria under which the arms must be reviewed is not properly employed and that the regulations are sometimes used as a cover."

Empowering Chavez

Campaign against the Weapons Trade has released a report called 'Rhetoric or Restraint' detailing examples where countries throughout the European Union have violated EU guidelines. The communal EU standpoint is that weapon deals should not threaten regional stability, nor should they come at the cost of social economic development.

In the case of Venezuela, Slijper says, the contract awarded to Thales could threaten regional stability by elevating Venezuela's military capability above others in the region. But the sale also transgresses an even more fundamental principle: do not arm your potential enemies.

"It's a very strange situation because, in this case, the Netherlands is supplying weapons which could eventually be used against Dutch interests in the region."

Trusted partner

For its part, the Dutch Foreign Ministry is attempting to thread the needle. The Hague says it isn't allowing any new contracts with Venezuela, out of concern for the direction the country is taking. But it has allowed all existing contracts to proceed, in the interest of continuity. According to the foreign ministry, 'the government wants to be a trusted partner for the private sector.'

This carefully worded statement belies a reported difference of opinion over the approval of the Thales contract. Former Defense Minister Henk Kamp is reported to have given negative advice for the sale, saying he feared Venezuela could pose a 'Falkland conflict-type military threat to the security of the Netherlands Antilles and Aruba.'

Kamp lost that internal battle only to witness, a few years later, escalating threats from Venezuela.

Thales has also supplied similar information systems to the South Korean navy. If the conflict on the Korean peninsula intensifies, the South Korean Navy will rely on Dutch information systems.

-ends-

[sukhoi-30mki]

[J Edgar]

Hugo C. can take what ever he wants. IMHO

The Kingdom of the Netherlands is so corrupt and socialized, that to goto War, the Army personnel must vote on it first!

Kingdom of the Netherlands is prime example of Libtard Insanity on a national scale!

PS: It could happen here too.

[Former Proud Canadian]

The Dutch have over 80 F-16s. Send some of them down there. Problem solved.

[J Edgar]

” ... The Dutch have over 80 F-16s. Send some of them down there. Problem solved. .. “

Sure, will do - if and only if the pilots vote for a Good To Go condition!

That’s my understanding of the Dutch military situation.

PS: I conducted training classes with some of their F-15 maintenance personnel in the early eighties. They where a bunch of arrogant, self-important bores.

[Former Proud Canadian]

Well, I only verified that they have the hardware. If it is a software problem.....

[sukhoi-30mki]

You mean F-16 maintenance personnel??

[GonzoGOP]

We are seeing over and over again, with Iran, North Korea, Syria and Pakistan that no matter the equipment disparity the side that is willing to push for a decision is the side most likely to win. The fact is that in poker terms Chavez is willing to go "All In" on a pair of deuces. It doesn't matter what cards the Dutch are holding, since they will fold at the first sign of the enemies ruthless intent.

With Obama in power the Dutch cannot count on US support, and given Obama's close relations with Chavez might end up fighting the US Atlantic Fleet. Don't think that's possible. Well how hard would it be to imagine Chavez landing troops and then Obama and the UN declaring a "Peace Quarantine" to prevent any more troops from landing on the islands. Chavez doesn't care, his guys are already there. But the Dutch can't bring in reinforcements and their tiny local garrisons can't hold out without immediate reinforcement. It is the exact scenario that the Syrians and Iranians pulled in Lebanon. They attacked Israel, and then when the Israeli counter attack started to make progress the UN stopped the fighting.

[Buckeye McFrog]

wonder what the opening line is in UK betting parlours on WW III being between Venezuela and the Netherlands?

[MSF BU]

If Dutch territory is taken, can’t the NATO treaty be invoked? As I recall, the Norwegian Air Force was actually flying missions to protect American cities after Sept. 11th.

[Pecos]

Deliver the software with a few back doors.

Re: the Dutch F-16’s - How would they get them to the theater, and where would they base them? Total non-starter.

[arfan]

The Dutch have over 80 F-16s. Send some of them down there. Problem solved

First of all, a little Wikipedia research will tell you that the Venezuelan air force has 20 F-16s as well, although A and B models. They have to purchase spare parts via 3rd parties due to US embargo However, they also have 24 Su-30MKV with 35 more on order. They are in talks to buy Su-35’s as well.

Also, the Netherlands has only 26 operational F-16’s at the moment due to Afghan commitments and budget issues. Theses are AM and BM models.

The Netherlands Air Force has no tankers.

Aruba is 16 miles from Venezuela, and 4895 miles from Amsterdam, or 498 miles from St. Marteen. Plenty of time for Venezuelan Radar to plot intercept.

The Netherlands F-16’s would have to be loaded with a mix of air to air, and air to ground. The Venezuelan Su-30MKVs would be maxed out air-to air.

With the current financial crisis in the EU, who would bankroll a recapture of Aruba?

Obama? Venezuela is a “small country” – remember what he said about Iran during the campaign?

NATO? Venezuela is an OPEC country – as in they produce Oil. A lot of that oil is going to NATO members.

The UN? Not with Korea heating up again.

Chavez could take Aruba in a heartbeat. If a conservative was in office, it would end up like Saddam taking Kuwait. With the US economy in tatters, the NORKS shelling the South, and the weakest president is US history in office, Chavez knows he would win.

He needs a military victory to emerge as the leader of the new order that he envisions in South America. He has everything to gain, and nothing to loose.

[Vinnie]

One of my ancestors sailed with Pierre LeGrande when he took Curacao from Spain in 1634. Became a bigwig on the island.
So I’ll take any move by Chavez personally.

[GreenLanternCorps]

The Dutch West Indian islands are South of the Tropic of Cancer, placing them outside the zone covered by NATO.

[WellyP]

We could cut off our imports of 850,000 barrels per day. It would be a squeeze for us but it would cripple his economy as he can not sell his high sulphur crude anywhere else in the world and has no spare cash.

[arfan]

Venezuela exports 2.4 million bpd. It's 1/3 the GDP of the country.

What you are saying would be true if it were a world-wide boycott of their oil.

The closest anybody has ever gotten to a universal oil boycott on a country was the oil export embargo against Saddam's Iraq. Even that was not universal. That did not bring Saddam down. Their were other world players that were only to happy to stick it to America by not complying with the embargo, or twisting the rules. Remember Oil-for-Food, and how crooked that ended up being?

Americans import 10% of our oil every day from Venezuela. A 10% decrease in supply, given constant demand, should create a minimum of a 10% increase in the price at the pump. I say minimum, because you have the consumer panic factor and price gouging that would take place.

While that would be great for Obama's political agenda, it would be bad for the American economy as a whole.

Then China would step in, and purchase the Venezuelan oil to feed their 9% GDP growth.

So the end result of an embargo would be:

1)Chavez retains his GDP
2)Chavez keeps Aruba, and the political clout it brings
3)The American economy takes a big hit as gas prices soar
4)China gets a bunch of oil to feed their economy

History proves embargos, if not universal, do not work.

[WellyP]

China will not have the necessary refining capacity or unlimited storage capacity to absorb an additional 850,000BPD from Venezuela for the 3 to 5 years it will take to build the very special refining units, good only for Venezuelan heavy sour crude.

We could stop buying Hugo's oil. It would be painful but we can do it. In 3 to 6 months Hugo would be toast, taken out by the good people of Venezuela! As a result of starving Charvez and eventually seeing him driven from office the regimes of the Castros in Cuba, Morales in Bolivia, Correa in Ecuador, Ortega in Nicaragua and the FARC will also be starved for cash.

I see that as a win-win!

[MSF BU]

Interesting, I didn’t know that. This of course, wouldn’t ever be a problem with a President like Reagan, because the invasion would be over before it began. Perhaps the Dutch would be smart to post a regular force there and/or put together some type of reserve contingent.