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To: Yooper4Life
You are talking about a different set of facts: jurisdiction attained by the U.S./States as a result of illegal aliens committing crimes on on U.S. soil is not the same as conferring U.S. citizenship on babies born to illegal aliens on U.S. soil.

Nobody is suggesting that it is. But 'subject to the jurisdiction' means subject to our laws and liable for penalties for breaking those laws. That exists regardless of national origin. I read the phrase 'subject to the jurisdiction of' in the 14th Amendment as meant to exclude diplomats, foreign heads of state, prisoners of war, and any other person not answerable to our laws.

80 posted on 11/18/2010 10:47:20 AM PST by Non-Sequitur
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To: Non-Sequitur
I read the phrase 'subject to the jurisdiction of' in the 14th Amendment as meant to exclude diplomats, foreign heads of state, prisoners of war, and any other person not answerable to our laws.

Funny. I read the phrase through the intent of the Amendment's sponsors and THEY also excluded foreigners and aliens.

I will again link to this article by P.A. Madison. I am not linking to it as endorsement of him (I don't know him) but he has put together a very good synopsis of the Congressional arguments made at the time of the Amendment's adoption. You can argue with them...

83 posted on 11/18/2010 11:05:25 AM PST by pgyanke (Republicans get in trouble when not living up to their principles. Democrats... when they do.)
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To: Non-Sequitur
You are talking about a different set of facts: jurisdiction attained by the U.S./States as a result of illegal aliens committing crimes on on U.S. soil is not the same as conferring U.S. citizenship on babies born to illegal aliens on U.S. soil.

Nobody is suggesting that it is. But 'subject to the jurisdiction' means subject to our laws and liable for penalties for breaking those laws. That exists regardless of national origin. I read the phrase 'subject to the jurisdiction of' in the 14th Amendment as meant to exclude diplomats, foreign heads of state, prisoners of war, and any other person not answerable to our laws. ******

Okay, and my point is that it is a fallacy to necessarily equate U.S. jurisdiction over illegal alien inmates who are imprisoned for breaking U.S. laws while in the U.S. (clear jurisdiction) with the jurisdictional requirement set forth in the 14th Amendment as it relates to illegal aliens who "happen" to birth babies on U.S. soil (muddy jurisdiction at best).

I do not believe that valid comparisons can be made with respect to the term "jurisdiction" in the respective situations. Separate laws and legislative histories exist for each set of facts, and this thread is about anchor babies.

With that said, it boggles my mind that anyone could argue with a straight face (this is not aimed at you) that the drafters of the 14th Amendment INTENDED to allow illegal aliens to crawl 1 foot across the U.S. border and birth a "U.S. citizen".

98 posted on 11/18/2010 1:56:31 PM PST by Yooper4Life (They all lie.)
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