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To: Tailgunner Joe

“The language you cite was debated and rejected, but even it does not make clear that any preferential treatment is establishment. It only forbids establishment of a denomination in preference to another, it doesn’t mention endorsement. “

Not true. Here’s the definition of endorsement:

1. the act or an instance of endorsing
2. something that endorses, such as a signature or qualifying comment
3. approval or support

I think you’re confusing political endorsement with legal endorsement. When Congress endorses a religion, it’s approving of its use for Congress as well as the United Staets as it represents the legislative body of the U.S., which is a clear violation of Amendment I.

One may argue that just because the government doesn’t pass any laws with regards to religion, it’s not a violation of the Constitution. But this has been clarified by SCOTUS as “defacto legislature” many times in the past. The simple common practice and continuance thereof is considered to be de facto legislature by Congress. One example of this is de facto War. Even if Congress doesn’t declare war, it declares “de facto” war whenever it continues to fund armed conflicts.


28 posted on 10/21/2010 12:22:45 AM PDT by BocoLoco
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To: Tailgunner Joe

And I’ll go a step further and say that prayer in Congress is also forbidden. The continual act of prayer in Congress constitutes a policy, which is in fact a de-facto law. Congress and the government function on policies. Policies are legal and binding. If they are not, they are challenged in the court system.

The framing fathers always intended to have a clear line in the sand between government and religion. Even though various changes to the phrasing of the Amendment were ultimately rejected in 1789, they provide valuable insight as to the overall intent of the law itself. One can easily see the attempts by various senators to clarify and enhance the phrasing as they felt the context was too ambiguous.

Saying “they don’t mean anything” would be self-defeating as in order to understand the original laws, one must understand why the laws were introduced to begin with. And in many cases, the only way to find out is to witness the construction of the law as it is being introduced in Congress.


29 posted on 10/21/2010 12:32:29 AM PDT by BocoLoco
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To: BocoLoco

Endorsement is defined as approval or support, but the first amendment does not forbid approval or support, it forbids establishment! Furthermore it forbids Congress from making any law concerning existing state establishments of religion!


38 posted on 10/21/2010 12:48:03 PM PDT by Tailgunner Joe
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To: BocoLoco

Try to weasel around these quotes from the Founding Fathers:

“The Bible should be read in our schools in preference to all other books from its containing the greatest portion of that kind of knowledge which is calculated to produce private and public temporal happiness.”
Benjamin Rush
Signer of the Declaration of Independence

“…..should not the Bible regain the place
it once held as a school book?

Fisher Ames
Author of the First Amendment

“The Bible is a book worth more than all the other books that were ever printed.”
Patrick Henry

”The Bible is the best of all books, for it is the word of God and teaches us the way to be happy in this world and in the next.”
John Jay
First Supreme Court Chief-Justice

“The Declaration of Independence first organized
the social compact on the foundation
of the Redeemer’s mission upon earth…
(and) laid the cornerstone of human government
upon the precepts of Christianity.”

John Quincy Adams
Sixth President of the United States

“You do well to wish to learn our arts and ways of life, and above all, the religion of Jesus Christ…..Congress will do everything they can to assist you in this wise intention.”
George Washington

“The highest glory of the American Revolution was this: it connected, in one indissoluble bond, the principles of civil government with the principles of Christianity.”
- John Adams

“It cannot be emphasized too strongly or too often that this great nation was founded, not by religionists, but by Christians; not on religions, but on the Gospel of Jesus Christ. For this very reason peoples of other faiths have been afforded asylum, prosperity, and freedom of worship here.”
Patrick Henry


55 posted on 10/27/2010 3:56:17 PM PDT by Moby Grape (Formerly Impeach the Boy...name change necessary after the Marxist won)
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