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Eventually, conservatives are going to have to come to terms with the fact that America will go bankrupt unless taxes go up. I don't like it, and like the author of the above piece, and I wish we could do it with spending cuts alone. But anyone who tells you that our budget woes, and national bankruptcy can be avoided, without some new taxes is living in a fantasyland.

As such, we should be seaching for ways in which we can reform our tax code to minimize deadweight loss that necessarily comes with increased taxes, which are a given.

The VAT or other consumption-type taxes are the only answer.

1 posted on 10/18/2010 2:27:28 PM PDT by curiosity
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To: curiosity

Raising taxes will hurt the economy, revenue could actually go down.

I for one would hope this government goes bankrupt.

Tell the government to STFU

We are not serfs.


2 posted on 10/18/2010 2:31:28 PM PDT by GeronL (http://libertyfic.proboards.com <--- My Fiction/ Science Fiction Board)
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To: curiosity

No...


3 posted on 10/18/2010 2:33:48 PM PDT by abb ("What ISN'T in the news is often more important than what IS." Ed Biersmith, 1942 -)
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To: curiosity

We don’t need higher taxes...we need more tax payers.
More people making more money who then pay taxes.


5 posted on 10/18/2010 2:35:26 PM PDT by SMCC1
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To: curiosity
Here’s the problem: The deficit is, by my always-suspect English-major math, about 36.3 percent of federal spending ($1.29 trillion deficit out of $3.55 trillion spending).

Bush's last budget was 3.1 trillion. Just go back to those levels and you are saving 455B per year. Eliminate the Department of Education, another 65B. Spending cuts are the only way out of this. They would have to have a 80% vat tax to pay for the unquenchable greed of the scum currently in office.
6 posted on 10/18/2010 2:41:05 PM PDT by microgood
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To: curiosity
Trying to pimp your RINO Daniels? Go back to DU. A VAT tax will DECREASE revenues and it'll create a huge underground economy.

All the fricking gov't agencies and bureaucracies that should be abolished or consolidated and this idiot wants to talk about another tax.

7 posted on 10/18/2010 2:41:40 PM PDT by Extremely Extreme Extremist (The Republic of the United States of America)
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To: curiosity

The only way you fix the tax mess is going to either the Fair Tax or Flat Tax. The current system only works for the super poor or the super rich

Both Norquist and Daniels are Liberal RINOs...Daniels even worse. Then again, no surprise that Daniels wants a VAT...he sold the taxpayer built Indian Tollroad to a foreign company....people who are Liberal Globalists like Daniels love higher taxes


8 posted on 10/18/2010 2:43:04 PM PDT by UCFRoadWarrior (They don't let you build churches in Mecca)
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To: curiosity

Conservatives MUST come to terms with the fact that the ballot box can not longer save us.

That we are Europe II.

That conservative politics are dead.


9 posted on 10/18/2010 2:44:10 PM PDT by roses of sharon (I can do all things through Him who strengthens me. Philippians 4:13)
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To: curiosity

The VAT is the road to serfdom.

It is the Holy Grail for progressives. No conservative should have anything to do with it.

We have the example of Europe on the VAT and that should tell people everything they need to know. You cannot kill the beast by feeding it our lifeblood.

The VAT allows the government to illegally confiscate at all stages of production. It is a vile and evil thing and I hope all FReepers will fight it to the death.


10 posted on 10/18/2010 2:49:03 PM PDT by Amadeo
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To: curiosity
Like it or not, taxes are going up: If not today, then in the near future.

Within a couple of years, we can balance the budget without raising taxes if we just phase out Social Security, Medicare and Medicaid. And, if we do so over a three-five year period, current recipients will have the time they will need to make other arrangements.

If we end the welfare state, taxes don't have to be increased.

11 posted on 10/18/2010 2:49:24 PM PDT by Walts Ice Pick
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To: curiosity

The underling premise of both the article and your post is that tax rates and revenue are directly proportional. People who believe this are not even worth talking to regarding taxation and budget policy.

Why doesn’t McDonald’s or Burger King raise their price for a Big Mac or Whopper? Because those who set the prices believe that if they did so revenues will drop. Both the price-revenue curve and the taxrate-revenue curve intersect the x-axis twice. Somewhere on that curve their exists at least one maximum. It’s called calculus - look it up.

Their is a maximum amount of tax revenue that can be taken out of an economy. If spending is above that maximum, changing tax rates can NEVER close the gap. Perhaps Mitch Daniels is a grown up, perhaps Santa Claus can bring him some math skills for Christmas.


12 posted on 10/18/2010 2:49:33 PM PDT by ALPAPilot
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To: curiosity

Grover Norquist is a big stooge for CAIR and Islam. F him.


13 posted on 10/18/2010 2:55:21 PM PDT by Frantzie (Imam Ob*m* & Democrats support the VICTORY MOSQUE & TV supports Imam)
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To: curiosity

Is not Norquist married to a Muslim woman and is not Norquist a regular apologist for the Muslims?

We need to get rid of both Norquist and Daniels for disparate reasons.

Both of them offend conservative sensibilities.


14 posted on 10/18/2010 2:58:02 PM PDT by Presbyterian Reporter
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To: curiosity; AuntB; bwc2221
Calling out Grover Norquist.

Grover is a traitor to conservatism - 1) Muslim stooge; 2) amnesty pusher; and 3) GOProud board member. He's as much to blame for the GOP's historical weaknesses as anyone.

19 posted on 10/18/2010 3:04:59 PM PDT by Servant of the Cross (I'm with Jim DeMint ... on the fringe baby!)
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To: curiosity
Eventually, conservatives are going to have to come to terms with the fact that America will go bankrupt unless taxes go up. I don't like it, and like the author of the above piece, and I wish we could do it with spending cuts alone. But anyone who tells you that our budget woes, and national bankruptcy can be avoided, without some new taxes is living in a fantasyland.

Poppycock. If tax rate are raised, the depressing effect on economic activity is likely to bankrupt us even faster.

But suppose the federal government can find a way to extract more money without choking off economic growth. What makes anyone think the additional revenues will be used to reduce the deficit or pay down the debt?

The truth is, no amount of tax revenue can ever satisfy the statists. They will always spend whatever they take in, and more.

The VAT or other consumption-type taxes are the only answer.

If VAT is the answer, it was a stupid question.

The only sure answer to the federal deficit is drastic reductions in spending.

20 posted on 10/18/2010 3:10:15 PM PDT by Logophile
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To: curiosity
Eventually, conservatives are going to have to come to terms with the fact that America will go bankrupt unless taxes go up.

Merda del toro. You assume that the current ridiculous levels of government bureaucracy are something we can't live without.

35 posted on 10/18/2010 4:36:09 PM PDT by denydenydeny ("Tolerance becomes a crime when applied to evil." Thomas Mann)
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To: curiosity
END THE WAR AND END THE FED!

How many trillion did i just free up?

37 posted on 10/18/2010 4:56:01 PM PDT by jd777
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To: curiosity
Spending is the issue, not taxes.

Such a simple concept totally lost on so many.

49 posted on 10/18/2010 9:15:06 PM PDT by calcowgirl ("In politics the middle way is none at all." -- John Adams)
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To: curiosity
Eventually, conservatives are going to have to come to terms with the fact that America will go bankrupt unless taxes go up.

That's nonsense. We can increase revenue by CUTTING taxes and spurring economic growth. And, with the trillions spent each year by the government, there is plenty of spending to cut.

50 posted on 10/18/2010 11:17:34 PM PDT by Ol' Sparky (Liberal Republicans are the greater of two evils)
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To: curiosity
The VAT or other consumption-type taxes are the only answer.

That would be fine and dandy, if, and only if, income taxation is forbidden at all levels of government by constitutional amendment.

Otherwise, when the electoral worm turns (which it always does), we will end up with both income and consumption taxes.

Constitutional amendments being hard to pass, the best strategy is to villify anybody calling for VAT, and instead demand a flat tax.

As a practical matter, let the pigs inflate their way out of their (our) fiscal mess. Inflation is easier to deal with than taxation (for one thing, you don't need a new passport).

Ideally, people who don't pay taxes shouldn't be allowed to vote.

51 posted on 10/18/2010 11:34:22 PM PDT by cynwoody
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To: curiosity

No, not without repealing the 16th amendment first.


52 posted on 10/19/2010 1:54:39 AM PDT by jospehm20
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