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To: patlin

This argument, while interesting (excepting the personal attacks) is also nothing but quaint with respect to the Constitution as amended. The language of the 14th Amendment established two classes of U.S. citizens, those born within its limits and those naturalized. The meaning of the former in respect to those eligible for the Office of President has never been tested in the courts, but is widely assumed by most jurists to mean than anyone born on U.S. soil is eligible to be President. Obama might make a good test case on this question except that he was most likely born in the U.S. Until such a case is brought before the courts, your opinion is just as good as the next man’s.


847 posted on 10/17/2010 7:16:46 PM PDT by centurion316
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To: centurion316
The language of the 14th Amendment established two classes of U.S. citizens, those born within its limits and those naturalized.

The adoption of the 14th Amendment is naturalization. You cannot create instant natural born citizen from people who were not US citizens before the Act.

849 posted on 10/17/2010 7:24:07 PM PDT by Red Steel
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To: centurion316
Oh pity the poor ignorant drone who doesn't know that the 1sdt rule of interpreting a law is to go to the words of those that wrote the law:

When pressed about whether Indians living on reservations would be covered by the clause since they were “most clearly subject to our jurisdiction, both civil and military,” for example, Senator Lyman Trumbull, a key figure in the drafting and adoption of the Fourteenth Amendment, responded that “subject to the jurisdiction” of the United States meant subject to its “complete” juris­diction, “[n]ot owing allegiance to anybody else.”[4] And Senator Jacob Howard, who introduced the language of the jurisdiction clause on the floor of the Senate, contended that it should be construed to mean “a full and complete jurisdiction,” “the same jurisdiction in extent and quality as applies to every citizen of the United States now”[5] (i.e., under the 1866 Act). That meant that the children of Indians who still “belong[ed] to a tribal relation” and hence owed allegiance to another sovereign (however dependent the sovereign was) would not qualify for citizenship under the clause. Because of this interpretative gloss, provided by the authors of the provision, an amendment offered by Senator James Doolittle of Wisconsin explicitly to exclude “Indians not taxed,” as the 1866 Act had done, was rejected as redundant.[6]

The interpretative gloss offered by Senators Trumbull and Howard was also accepted by the Supreme Court-by both the majority and the dis­senting justices-in The Slaughter-House Cases.[7] The majority in that case correctly noted that the “main purpose” of the clause “was to establish the citizenship of the negro” and that “[t]he phrase, ‘subject to its jurisdiction’ was intended to exclude from its operation children of ministers, consuls, and citizens or subjects of foreign States born within the United States.”[8] Justice Steven Field, joined by Chief Justice Chase and Justices Swayne and Brad­ley in dissent from the principal holding of the case, likewise acknowledged that the clause was designed to remove any doubts about the constitu­tionality of the 1866 Civil Rights Act, which pro­vided that all persons born in the United States were as a result citizens both of the United States and of the state in which they resided, provided they were not at the time subjects of any foreign power.[9]

Although the statement by the majority in Slaughter-House was dicta, the position regarding the “subject to the jurisdiction” language advanced there was subsequently adopted as holding by the Supreme Court in Elk v. Wilkins.[10] John Elk was born on an Indian reservation and subsequently moved to non-reservation U.S. territory, renounced his former tribal allegiance, and claimed U.S. citizenship by virtue of the Citizen­ship Clause. This Court held that the claimant was not “subject to the jurisdiction” of the United States at birth, which required that he be “not merely subject in some respect or degree to the jurisdiction of the United States, but completely subject to their political jurisdiction, and owing them direct and immediate allegiance.”[11] Elk did not meet the jurisdictional test because, as a mem­ber of an Indian tribe at his birth, he “owed imme­diate allegiance to” his tribe and not to the United States.

Indeed, if anything, American Indians, as mem­bers of tribes that were themselves dependent upon the United States (and hence themselves subject to its jurisdiction), had a stronger claim to citizenship under the Fourteenth Amendment merely by virtue of their birth within the territorial jurisdiction of the United States than did children of foreign nationals.

Gray did a complete 180 from the deciding opinion HE(GRAY) wrote in Elk to that of WKA. He completely ignored the congressional records of the founders of the 14th that he used in Elk. WKA ushered in the dumbing down of US citizenship & sovereignty for the progressive movement by the biggest usurpation of the Constitution in the 19th century.

854 posted on 10/17/2010 7:53:00 PM PDT by patlin (Ignorance is Bliss for those who choose to wear rose colored glasses)
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