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To: PA-RIVER
“I never called my dear friend Seq a Nazi. He just follows orders.”

Don't know if that was your quote. If it was, saying a military officer would stand by while the government he is sworn to serve is obviously destroyed, then prosecute to the death any who protested has an obvious historical parallel of which you are well aware, notwithstanding any protestatiosn to the contrary.

“Now, I would call running for president, when you know your an Indonesian, burning and pissing on the constitution. And some people do have no problem with an Indonesian man becoming president. The same people would in fact arrest a soldier who would object and refuse to fight for that reason. And, the ultimate punishment for desertion is hanging.”

The problem is, you do not have an ounce of meaningful evidence that the man currently occupying the Oval Office is an Indonesian. And the fact that you seem to use that term as an epithet does not speak well of you.

521 posted on 10/15/2010 1:39:15 PM PDT by tired_old_conservative
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To: BuckeyeTexan; Frantzie; Regulator; Jacquerie; Red Steel; SandRat; El Sordo; mlo; DirtyHarryY2K; ...
Don't know if that was your quote. If it was, saying a military officer would stand by while the government he is sworn to serve

Wrong, wrong, WRONG!
No soldier is sworn to serve the government. Period.
I'll prove it, too:

Oath of Enlistment
National Guard portions in blue.
I, (NAME), do solemnly swear (or affirm) that I will support and defend the Constitution of the United States and the State of (STATE NAME) against all enemies, foreign and domestic; that I will bear true faith and allegiance to the same; and that I will obey the orders of the President of the United States and the Governor of (STATE NAME) and the orders of the officers appointed over me,
    ☀   according to regulations and the Uniform Code of Military Justice.
    ☀   according to law and regulations.
So help me God.
Oath of Office [for military officers]
I, [name], do solemnly swear (or affirm) that I will support and defend the Constitution of the United States against all enemies, foreign and domestic; that I will bear true faith and allegiance to the same; that I take this obligation freely, without any mental reservation or purpose of evasion; and that I will well and faithfully discharge the duties of the office on which I am about to enter. So help me God.
Additional Oath for Officers in the National Guard
I, [name], do solemly swear (or affirm) that I will support and defend the Constitution of the United States and the Constitution of the State (Commonwealth, District, Territory) of [STATE/COMMONWEALTH/TERRITORY] against all enemies, foreign and domestic; that I will bear true faith and allegiance to the same; that I will obey the orders of the President of the United States and the Governor of the State (Commonwealth, District, Territory) of [STATE/COMMONWEALTH/TERRITORY], that I make this obligation freely, without any mental reservations or purpose of evasion, and that I will well and faithfully discharge the duties of the Office of [grade] in the (Army, Air) National Guard of the State (Commonwealth, District, Territory) of [STATE/COMMONWEALTH/TERRITORY] upon which I am about to enter, so help me God.

Note that there of no mention of the Nation in any of these oaths. Note there is no mention of any branch of government in these oaths. Notice that there is no mention of the president in the oath for officers. Notice that when the President is mentioned in any of these oaths it is after (indicating a subservient position to) the promise to defend the Constitution[s] AND the declaration of allegiance to the Constitution[s].

This is also born out by the terminal clause about lawfulness of orders, the Constitution is the Supreme Law and any law or regulation or order contrary thereunto is illegal. It can therefore be said that all these military oaths begin and end with the Constitution.

Furthermore
MILITARY AUTHORITY
Authority is defined as the right to direct soldiers to do certain things. Authority is the legitimate power of leaders to direct soldiers or to take action within the scope of their position. Military authority begins with the Constitution, which divides it between Congress and the President. The President, as commander in chief, commands the armed forces, including the Army. The authority from the Commander-in-Chief extends through the chain of command, with the assistance of the NCO support channel, to the squad, section or team leader who then directs and supervises the actions of individual soldiers.

The Seven Army Values (LDRSHIP)
According to the Army (via GTA 22-6-2)

  1. Loyalty - Bear true faith and allegiance to the U.S. Constitution, the Army, and other soldiers.
  2. Duty - Fulfill your obligations.
  3. Respect - Treat people as they should be treated.
  4. Selfless-Service - Put the welfare of the nation, the Army, and your subordinates before your own.
  5. Honor - Live up to all the Army values.
  6. Integrity - Do what's right, legally and morally.
  7. Personal Courage - Face fear, danger, or adversity (Physical or Moral).

As expounded upon by the University of Cincinnati's ROTC:
Loyalty
Loyalty is bearing witness to your allegiance to the US Constitution and its ideals, to the Army, to your unit, to your fellow Soldiers and subordinates, and to yourself as an Army professional. Loyalty means placing your professional obligations and commitments before your personal ones. It means dedication to carrying out all of your unit’s missions and to serving faithfully the values of the country, the Army, and your unit.

Duty
Duty involves fulfilling all of your professional, legal, and moral obligations and accomplishing all tasks to the fullest of your ability. Duty means accepting responsibility for your actions and those of your subordinates. Doing your duty prohibits engaging in illegal and immoral actions. Duty also requires your disobedience of unlawful orders— those that run counter to the Army’s doctrine, standard practices, and values.

Respect
As an Army officer, you are charged with promoting dignity, fairness, and equal opportunity for others. Respect means treating people as they should be treated and as you expect to be treated. It requires having regard for others’ well-being, feelings, and needs.

Selfless Service
Selfless service means placing Army priorities before your own. You consider the welfare of the nation, your mission, and your fellow Soldiers and subordinates before your personal safety. Selfless service means a willingness to sacrifice for the country, the Army, and your unit. This does not mean that you forget about the needs of your family or yourself. Selfless service prevents a narrow, ambitious focus on careerism for gain or glory. This value guides you in giving credit where credit is due and sharing your successes.

Integrity
Integrity means “completeness” and “wholeness.” Integrity leads you to unity and consistency in your principles, values, and behavior. It requires you to be candid and sincere with your peers, subordinates, and superiors. Integrity calls upon you to be honest and honorable in word and deed at all times.

Personal Courage
A wise leader once said that courageous people are afraid, too—they just hold on for a minute longer. You can exhibit two types of courage. Physical courage enables you to face fear, danger, and adversity in any situation. Moral courage means acting with honor, respecting others, and taking responsibility for your actions and decisions. In the Army, you get a medal for acting bravely. But decorations are merely cloth and metal symbols of your inner strength of character that leads to courageous acts.

I could cite much, MUCH more but I think this is enough to say, conclusively, that the Lt. Col is acting honorably.
If you choose to disagree, then I invite you to find documented proof to present, which invalidates the above.

580 posted on 10/15/2010 4:04:54 PM PDT by OneWingedShark (Q: Why am I here? A: To do Justly, to love mercy, and to walk humbly with my God.)
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