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To: edge919
The lack of a record means nothing.

It means everything. If he had renounced his citizenship, we would know about it.

There are plenty of so-called public records that have never surfaced in regard to Obama.

Such as?

Mave you not seen the lists posted here??

Yes, and nothing on those lists, that I recall, is public information. Can you provide a counterexample?

Second, you're missing the point I mentioned earlier about Obama believing he had lost his U.S. citizenship (providing he ever had it)

Oh, that's interesting. What evidence do you have that he believed he lost his citizenship?

and voluntarily acted as an Indonesian citizen

Really? What evidence do you have that he voluntarily acted as an Indonesian citizen?

as an adult without ever legally establishing or re-establishing U.S. citizenship ...

Why would he have to re-establish something he never lost?

and tried to conceal this from the public.

How?

For example, did he register as foreign student at Occidental??

Why would he do such a thing? What possible benefit could he derive from this?

The issue isn't just about his citizenship, but his dishonesty, lack of transparency and whether he may have committed criminal fraud at some point.

You have no evidence of any criminal fraud.

Dishonesty, lack of transparancy, sure, but unfortunately, these aren't impeachable offenses.

1,500 posted on 10/21/2010 2:59:19 PM PDT by curiosity
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To: curiosity

You’re a troll and an O supporter. end of story.


1,520 posted on 10/21/2010 3:40:53 PM PDT by mojitojoe (Caractacus..or Bob if a boy & Boudicca if a girl....such hard decisions for dearie Snidely)
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To: curiosity
It means everything. If he had renounced his citizenship, we would know about it.

What's your basis for assuming this?? The state department's foreign affairs manual says, "d. Requests for Certificates of Loss of Nationality (CLN): (1) Although the PA applies only to persons who are U.S. citizens or permanent resident aliens, the Department’s policy has been to refuse to confirm or deny the citizenship status of a person to a third party, other than an agency as allowed by the PA."

Yes, and nothing on those lists, that I recall, is public information. Can you provide a counterexample?

Some of the information should be available through freedom of information requests, such as his mom's passport records which were recently released but incomplete. In addition we would expect to see a marriage license for his parents, his college thesis, Illinois state bar records and Illinois state senate records. As a public figure and as president, there's really no reason his 'private' records should be withheld either.

What evidence do you have that he believed he lost his citizenship?

He was listed as an Indonesian citizen on his school registration in Indonesia and Indonesian law does not allow dual citizenship. There should have been no reason to list him that way if he was NOT an Indonesian citizen.

Why would he have to re-establish something he never lost?

This is a stupid question when you start breaking down individual phrases from a post rather than addressing the whole of what was written. The best available evidence at this point says Obama was an Indonesian citizen and there are no documents addressing his citizenship after that point, with the exception of his presidential passport 40 years later. It's the stuff in between that needs to be established.

Why would he do such a thing? What possible benefit could he derive from this?

If he still had Indonesian citizenship, he would have been required to declare it. No one said he had to benefit from it.

You have no evidence of any criminal fraud.

The state of Hawaii refuses to confirm the legitimacy of Obama's alleged COLB. The certificate number and publication of his birth announcement does not match the sequence of known certificates. Hawaii also indicated through statutory responses that Obama's COLB was amended and as such, that should be indicated on his COLB in some fashion. Fraudulent birth certificates fall under federal criminal statutes.

1,654 posted on 10/22/2010 1:49:24 AM PDT by edge919
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