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To: DJ MacWoW
My interpretation of that passage would be this: the violent nature of men and their hostility to strangers is at issue here, not the sexuality of this particular episode. Yes, the men from the town of Sodom gathered and said that they were going to plow the strangers in Lot's house whether he liked it or not, but I'd argue that was more of a form of domination or intimidation rather than a request for sexual gratification--after all, we're talking about forcible rape here, not a dinner and a movie.

And for this tale to be true, that would have to mean that every man in Sodom was both a rapist and a homosexual; I simply don't see how any form of human society could exist even for a week where every male in that society were a violent homosexual rapist.

And Lot certainly doesn't paint himself in glory here, either, by offering up his daughters to be raped instead of his house guests. Gee, thanks Dad. Thanks for pushing us onto your sword.

Perhaps the angels were bent on reaping havoc on a wicked city instead of a bunch of homos?

209 posted on 09/21/2010 9:20:47 AM PDT by Hemingway's Ghost (Spirit of '75)
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To: Hemingway's Ghost
Perhaps the angels were bent on reaping havoc on a wicked city instead of a bunch of homos?

Homosexuality was part of their sin against God.

Have a nice day.

211 posted on 09/21/2010 9:24:40 AM PDT by DJ MacWoW (If Bam is the answer, the question was stupid.)
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To: Hemingway's Ghost
"My interpretation of that passage would be this: the violent nature of men and their hostility to strangers is at issue here, not the sexuality of this particular episode."

I dunno bout you but homosexual rape would seem a bit 'violent' and 'hostile to strangers'.

"And Lot certainly doesn't paint himself in glory here, either, by offering up his daughters to be raped instead of his house guests. Gee, thanks Dad. Thanks for pushing us onto your sword."

Or it may be a distinct contrast describing the hospitality etiquette of the time. IOW, so grievous would the sin be that a man would rather see his daughters raped than allow guests in his home to be homosexually raped.

"Perhaps the angels were bent on reaping havoc on a wicked city instead of a bunch of homos?"

Or maybe the story is accurate on it's face after all?

212 posted on 09/21/2010 9:36:32 AM PDT by GourmetDan (Eccl 10:2 - The heart of the wise inclines to the right, but the heart of the fool to the left.)
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To: Hemingway's Ghost; DJ MacWoW

“And for this tale to be true, that would have to mean that every man in Sodom was both a rapist and a homosexual; I simply don’t see how any form of human society could exist even for a week where every male in that society were a violent homosexual rapist.”

Hemingway’s Ghost, I actually can counter this with an actual tribe/society on the Earth, today, in the here and now. There is a tribe (beware, the wikipedia article is very, very lean in details, but I have read more extensively on this tribe in other studies), called the “Kukukuku” or “Angu” who have the practice of older males raping the younger ones in order to put there, ahem “Essence” in them, and say that it’s what makes them grow up to be men. In the culture, it is universal—at least reception of the act— and, according to the other texts I have read it was all elder males and involved all the young boys. Wikipedia’s article is very, very whitewashed.

In any event, I’ve posted the link and almost complete artice below, it’s short, but you can research further. In any event, it should offer some insight as to how differently something can be, just an ocean away. Not everone thinks and acts in a more civilized manner, as we do today (albeit we are FAR from perfect), but I imagine the same issues we have today were at least as rampant, if not moreso, in the early biblical times.

http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Angu

“The Angu, also called Kukukuku (pronounced “cooker-cooker”) by neighbouring tribes, are a small and previously violent tribe living mainly in the high, mountainous region of south-western Morobe, a province of Papua New Guinea. Even though they are a short people, often less than 5 foot, they were once feared for their violent raids on more peaceful villages living in lower valleys.[1]

They are also known to Westerners for practicing a sexual ritual involving preadolescent boys acting as courtesans for male tribal elders.”


276 posted on 09/21/2010 10:19:59 PM PDT by JDW11235 (I think I got it now!)
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