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Marines Could Fly CTOL JSF
Aviation Week ^ | 9/14/2010 | Bill Sweetman

Posted on 09/14/2010 10:47:49 AM PDT by sukhoi-30mki

Marines Could Fly CTOL JSF (Updated)

Posted by Bill Sweetman at 9/14/2010 5:48 AM CDT

The US Marine Corps could make greater use of (see update for wording change) the Air Force's F-35A variant of the Joint Strike Fighter, as delays and a major review cast more doubt on the feasibility of meeting a late-2012 IOC date with the F-35B short take-off, vertical landing variant.

The change is one of the options emerging from an in-depth review of the JSF program, covering the path from now until initial operating capability and full production, Lockheed Martin F-35 general manager Tom Burbage said Monday at the Air Force Association convention at National Harbor, Maryland. This is the review that underlies recent discussions about "rephasing" the F-35 program.

The technical baseline review (TBR) was commissioned after the JSF's Nunn-McCurdy breach earlier this year and supports a Defense Acquisition Board review in November. Burbage characterizes the TBR as featuring a different role for Air Force Materiel Command and Naval Air Systems Command, which have hitherto delegated the management of the program to the JSF Program Office.

The syscoms "are taking a much stronger role as we get to introducing the aircraft to operations", Burbage said on Monday. Although the TBR also includes an independent manufacturing review, a major focus is on the critical path towards IOC.

In the case of the F-35B, there are three major items on the critical path, Burbage says. The most important, underpinning the others, is the vertical landing test program. Since March, F-35 BF-1, the only jet instrumented for vertical landings in the initial test phase, has accomplished about half as many vertical landings as scheduled, performing a dozen flights. Burbage says that 42 flights are "the magic number" after which the other F-35B test assets can start flying in vertical mode. BF-2 is being modified with the necessary instrumentation to share BF-1's role and reach that point more quickly.

The second key critical path item is the "ready for training" date, which indicates that enough testing has been done to allow the aircraft to be flown safely by operational pilots rather than test pilots, and without the constant monitoring in the test environment. The Marines' IOC criteria include the availability of 20 trained pilots.

The third big critical item is ship qualification, which was due to start in the first half of 2011, and Burbage adds that "there is a myriad of other things to be done."

The Marines have continued to insist that they will declare IOC in late 2012, and Burbage stresses that it is the operator's role to make that call. However, he says, one of the options being floated as the TBR continues is "why don't the Marines fly the CTOL aircraft?"

The F-35As have so far proven more reliable than the F-35Bs, and the Marine IOC plan has always called for training to start on the F-35A. The Marine inventory also includes combat aircraft such as the F/A-18D and EA-6B, which are for practical purposes land-based in Marine service.

Therefore, an expanded role for the F-35A could form a bridge to the definitive F-35B - while taking some pressure off the program and giving it more time to fix what are still characterized as component-quality issues with the STOVL jet.

Update and clarification: I initially worded this piece to reflect my view that the USMC could declare IOC with the F-35A before going on to the F-35B, and unintentionally implied that Burbage had suggested that they could do so. Lockheed Martin asks us to point out that while a larger role for the F-35A with the Marines is an option under discussion, as a means of mitigating schedule risk, it is entirely up to the Marines to decide whether that would be declared as an operational capability and that the Marines have no plan to do so as yet.


TOPICS: Foreign Affairs; News/Current Events
KEYWORDS: aerospace; f35; marines; navair; usmc

1 posted on 09/14/2010 10:47:59 AM PDT by sukhoi-30mki
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To: sukhoi-30mki

The Marines have to have the STOVL version of the F-35. The A version could never take off from Gator Freightors. The only fixed wings on gator freightors currently are AV-8 Harriers. Can only be replaced by the STOVLs...


2 posted on 09/14/2010 10:53:11 AM PDT by Old Teufel Hunden
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To: sukhoi-30mki; Old Teufel Hunden
The Marines currently use a mix of F/A-18s and AV-8s, so I would think that a mix of F-35Bs and Cs would make sense. Take the Cs now and the Bs when they are ready.
3 posted on 09/14/2010 11:47:16 AM PDT by Sergio (If a tree fell on a mime in the forest, would he make a sound?)
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To: Sergio

I agree. But ultimately they will need the STOVLs. Until then they can keep the Harriers and make do.


4 posted on 09/14/2010 11:50:24 AM PDT by Old Teufel Hunden
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To: Old Teufel Hunden

Well, yes, BUT: the Corps could equip the initial training squadron with A models to build a cadre of trained pilots and maintainers, then transition to the B models when they are ready. Learning STOVL techniques would be quick compared to learning the whole system in a CTOL.

TC


5 posted on 09/14/2010 11:51:55 AM PDT by Pentagon Leatherneck
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To: magslinger

ping


6 posted on 09/14/2010 12:18:32 PM PDT by Vroomfondel (<---- doesn't know how to use the three shells)
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To: Vroomfondel; SC Swamp Fox; Fred Hayek; NY Attitude; P3_Acoustic; investigateworld; lowbuck; ...
SONOBUOY PING!

Click on pic for past Navair pings.

Post or FReepmail me if you wish to be enlisted in or discharged from the Navair Pinglist.
The only requirement for inclusion in the Navair Pinglist is an interest in Naval Aviation.
This is a medium to low volume pinglist.

7 posted on 09/14/2010 12:27:34 PM PDT by magslinger ('This is a United States Marine Corps FA-18 fighter. Send 'em up, I'll wait!')
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To: sukhoi-30mki

uhhhh,,, F-22 anyone.. good God.

These fools in Washington and the Pentagon never quit nor do lobbyists.


8 posted on 09/14/2010 12:32:37 PM PDT by NormsRevenge (Semper Fi ... Godspeed .. Monthly Donor Onboard .. Obama: Epic Fail or Bust!!!)
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To: NormsRevenge
F-22s are not STOVL, and that is the lynchpin of the Marine Corps' over the horizon beach strike doctrine.

Fear not, as the article states, the Marine Corps have always planned on using F-35As to meet the requirement of having enough trained F-35 pilots to delcare IOC. All that this would do is have the Marines operate F-35As for a bit longer while they continue to train pilots, maintainers, and develop tactics.

Eventually the -As will be replaced by -Bs, and the Marines will get their sea legs.

That is, unless Gates manages to kill off the Marine Corps' over the horizon doctrine by killing the EFV. Then the F-35B and MV-22B also become moot.

9 posted on 09/14/2010 1:16:20 PM PDT by Yo-Yo (Is the /sarc tag really necessary?)
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To: NormsRevenge
I don't think the F-22 is appropriate for close air support of ground troops, the primary mission of Marine Aviation.

Additionally, it can not take off and land on an Amphib ship or even a CV.

10 posted on 09/14/2010 4:34:14 PM PDT by SC Swamp Fox (Aim small, miss small.)
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To: sukhoi-30mki

What the hell has Lockheed done with this project? They bit off more than they could chew or what??

Maybe Boeing should’ve won with that ugly guppy.


11 posted on 09/14/2010 4:36:10 PM PDT by Tolsti2
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To: Yo-Yo
That is, unless Gates manages to kill off the Marine Corps.

There, I fixed it for you.

12 posted on 09/14/2010 4:36:41 PM PDT by SC Swamp Fox (Aim small, miss small.)
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To: SC Swamp Fox

Good points. Thanks!

I have a hard time telling my fixed from my rotary these days. VTO transitioning to fixed wing definitely adds a twist or two.

I like the good old strafe’n’run and drop a couple big ones on ‘em strategy,.

I’d be happy with a Huey or Cobra gunship and F4 Phantom myself, but times , they do be changing on the battlefield.


13 posted on 09/14/2010 6:59:42 PM PDT by NormsRevenge (Semper Fi ... Godspeed .. Monthly Donor Onboard .. Obama: Epic Fail or Bust!!!)
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To: SC Swamp Fox
"That is, unless Gates manages to kill off the Marine Corps."

There, I fixed it for you

Yeah, there's that, too.

14 posted on 09/14/2010 7:11:34 PM PDT by Yo-Yo (Is the /sarc tag really necessary?)
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To: Old Teufel Hunden
The A version could never take off from Gator Freightors.

I think the idea is just to accelerate operational status (or avoid a delay) by beginning training in the A's, presumably ashore.

15 posted on 09/16/2010 10:08:31 PM PDT by lentulusgracchus
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To: sukhoi-30mki
There is actually way, waaaay too much information being put out publicly here, some of which might offer insights to Chinese and other non-friendly naval air operators planning their own CV and A/C deployments, imho.
16 posted on 09/16/2010 10:15:13 PM PDT by lentulusgracchus
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