Guns of Contention: If Philly says no, Florida can say yes(PA)

philly.com ^ | 31 August, 2010 | Stephanie Farr

[marktwain]

In the last two years, Philadelphia police have confiscated guns from at least nine men - including four security guards - who were carrying them legally, and only one of the guns has been returned, according to interviews with the men.

Eight of the men said that they were detained by police - two for 18 hours each. Two were hospitalized for diabetic issues while in custody, one of whom was handcuffed to a bed. Charges were filed against three of the men, only to be withdrawn by the District Attorney's Office.

The civil-rights unit of the City Solicitor's Office confirmed that it is handling eight such cases. Two of the men interviewed by the Daily News said that they rejected settlement offers from the city ranging from $3,500 to $7,500. One accepted a $5,000 offer.

Most of the cases hinge on what local authorities call the "Florida loophole," under which a Pennsylvania resident can obtain a nonresident permit to carry a concealed weapon through the mail from another state, even without a permit in Pennsylvania.

The "loophole" is unpopular with Philadelphia cops, who say that it allows those denied a permit here or whose permits were revoked to circumvent Philadelphia authorities and obtain it elsewhere.

But proponents say that it's necessary because Philadelphia has unusually strict criteria for obtaining a concealed-carry permit. Philadelphia, according to police and gun owners, relies heavily on a clause that allows denial of a permit based on "character and reputation" alone.

The men interviewed by the Daily News had varying reasons for seeking nonresident permits from Florida or other states, including having been denied a Philadelphia permit because of unpaid parking tickets. Some said that they carry a Florida permit because it is recognized by more states than a Pennsylvania one.

[marktwain]

So the city is willing to pay thousands of dollars of settlements so its police can ignore the law and the Constitution?

[Tribune7]

ping

[dirtboy]

Maybe if Philly didn’t have such an anti-gun bent, this would be a non-story.

[umgud]

The ole commerce clause only applies when it is in the government’s interest.

[Gilbo_3]

The "loophole" is unpopular with Philadelphia cops, who say that it allows those denied a permit here or whose permits were revoked to circumvent Philadelphia authorities and obtain it elsewhere.

well if they 'feel' that way, then they wont mind a federal charge for deprivation of Rights then...

[Red in Blue PA]

Pennsylvania Constitution Section 21:

The right of the citizens to bear arms in defense of themselves and the State shall not be questioned.

[JrsyJack]

a Philadelphia permit because of unpaid parking tickets. Some said that they carry a Florida permit because it is recognized by more states than a Pennsylvania one.

It is not a Philly permit, a CCW is a state issued document. Philadelphia County is the state's only Class 1 jurisdiction which is only intended to limit open carry to a CCW holder, not to allow the City of Philadelphia to enact it's own gun control laws. A FL CCW is not a loophole, the State of PA honors it, so must Philadelphia. Florida's rules for granting a CCW are no less stringent than any other state and someone that is rightfully declined in PA would be declined in Florida.

[Dayman]

I'm so tired of hearing about “loopholes” in gun laws. There's no such thing. People write laws and they mean what they say. If it's not in there then so be it. It's not a loophole to do something, it's simply not illegal per the law. People shouldn't be made to feel like they're being underhanded for following the letter of the law.

Since no gun laws are constitutionally acceptable or should be followed it doesn't really matter what the Philly PD thinks. All CCW’s or LTCF’s are unconstitutional infringements to begin with.

[marktwain]

“It is not a Philly permit, a CCW is a state issued document. Philadelphia County is the state’s only Class 1 jurisdiction which is only intended to limit open carry to a CCW holder, not to allow the City of Philadelphia to enact it’s own gun control laws. A FL CCW is not a loophole, the State of PA honors it, so must Philadelphia. Florida’s rules for granting a CCW are no less stringent than any other state and someone that is rightfully declined in PA would be declined in Florida.”

That is the law as I understand it. It sounds as though Philly is risking a lawsuit for deprivation of rights under color of law.

[pabianice]

If you ever go to, or do business with anyone in Philly, you are an aswhipee.

[Dan Nunn]

Florida's rules for granting a CCW are no less stringent than any other state and someone that is rightfully declined in PA would be declined in Florida.

The process for obtaining a CCW in Florida is actually much more involved than obtaining a LTCF in Pennsylvania. You have to take a class, with fingerprints, and all the like.

That being said, I believe Pennsylvania is more strict with drug convictions; that is, even a misdemeanor drug conviction from 30 years ago will disqualify you from an LTCF in Pennsylvania, whereas Florida may not be as strict.

[Pecos]

I know that is the way federal law is written, but have you ever heard of anyone being prosecuted under it for violation of Second Amendment rights? Not likely. We are a nation of agendas, not laws.