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To: Springfield Reformer; Non-Sequitur
before considering whether you’re really an Obama supporter?

As soon as this sort of ad hominim is thrown out, you lose all credibility. Do you really think that people who have been here 9 or 10 years longer than you are Obama supporters? No, what you are saying is that if you don't agree with me I will attack you with silly insults and nonsensical phrases. Well, I can fart in your general direction as well.

Now to your point. You misunderstand the law. When I was a garrison commander, I was warned that if I carried into effect an order that violated a long litany of federal statutes, I would be doing so at my peril. For example, I receive an order, a plan, and funding to expand a firing range in the training area. I proceed before checking to ensure that it wasn't running afoul of the Endangered Species Act in regard to the Red Cockaded Woodpecker or some such. It could be curtains for me as I could be held both criminally and civilly liable for such negligence.

What you are suggesting is that all orders to deploy to Afghanistan since George Bush ordered troops into combat in 2001 are subject to the same standard. Even if you limit your assertion to orders issued since January, 2009 your argument is absurd in its face.

I would love the eligibility fairy to swoop down with her magic wand and send Mr. Obama into the briar patch. But, that is not going to happen and those voices of sanity that keep pointing out the legal and political realities of this situation are not Obama followers, we just don't choose to ride on the crazy train.

283 posted on 09/05/2010 5:34:07 PM PDT by centurion316
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To: centurion316

I understand how you might have taken my comment to NS as ad hominem, given the context. However, I assure you, it was not meant as such. I was using the age-old technique of applying the golden rule, by showing how the arguer was asking for himself a benefit he was denying to the subject of his condemnation, consideration of mental state. I was not saying NS actually was an Obama supporter. I was only saying that IF mental state were excluded from consideration, the objective EFFECT of NS coming on FR and spending hours ripping on constitutionalists (with plenty of arguably ad hominem comments, one of which is simply calling people “birthers”), THEN NS could reasonably be construed as taking action that helped keep a socialist tyrant in power, not intentionally, mind you, but as a consequence of actions taken, that would be the net effect, as it tends to diminish the importance of constitutional governance.

Seems pretty unfair leaving your mental state out of the equation, doesn’t it. Hmmm…

So, like I said, I know why you misread that. That’s OK. The effect was intentional; it allowed me to further demonstrate by live example the fundamental inconsistency of the position on Lakin’s mental state taken here by the ever-present “anti-birther brigade.” Thank you for your help.

And no, my FRiend, I do not misunderstand the law. I merely see it in grander scope than just the bare words of the UCMJ, or your litany of federal statutes protecting endangered animals, both of which fall lower in the hierarchy of constitutional concerns than the validity of command authority. I suggest you check out Blackstone’s view on the prioritization of legal principles. It would really help you sort this all out. Federal statutes are certainly valid concerns, but they are only indirectly of constitutional caliber. Of far greater importance is the credibility of the explicitly constitutionally created chain of command and the criteria for its existence.

As for your “eligibility fairy” and “crazy train” comments, are they not merely indirect ad hominem attacks (implying as they do the incompetent mental state of all who hope for vindication of this important constitutional issue)? I would have thought if such attacks uniformly and instantly removed all credibility you would not use them, even if others did, in the interest of preserving your own credibility. That certainly is my own principle, and I highly recommend it.

And for the record, anyone who has served his country as you have would have to go much further than mere insult to lose credibility with me. Thank you for your service. :)


297 posted on 09/08/2010 10:19:16 AM PDT by Springfield Reformer (Winston Churchill: No Peace Till Victory!)
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