Posted on 08/31/2010 6:59:43 AM PDT by MarkLevinFan
no just as you say I call a spade a spade.
i liked Beck in the beginning and bought two of his books and agree with about 75% of what he says but find him rather mercurial and juvenile in his clownish antics
i think he is DEAD WRONG when he calls Martin Luther King a conservative icon...that is ridiculous and not even worthy of debate
and yes I would not throw out Teddy Roosevelt as readily as he does
and so forth...plus he is in favor of homosexual marriage and thinks railing against abortion is already being done enuff
i would be interested to see how many here approve of Beck and how many do not...maybe you should ask Jim if it bothers you that some of us don't buy into his hype
at first i found his black outreach commendable but then he starts pandering much like a Hubert Humphrey Democrat would...which btw is pretty much what he is
and is therefore not fit to be the face of a take back America conservatism for me...thanks
this reminds me of the amnesty battle here 5 years ago....this sharp division....I wasn't wrong that time either
my extended family is 99% conservative culture war types and like me in the beginning liked Beck...now nearly all of them are like...WTH is wrong with this guy? He's become race obsessed. Conservatism should not be preached under the prism of race...you either get it or you do not...unlike the race baiters it truly is colorblind...or should be.
I don't doubt for a second most of the crowd showed up for the theme and Palin not so much Beck worship...I could be wrong though
you're new here...if you disagree then offer a refutation and explain to all of us how Martin Luther King was really a conservative..lol...I will be waiting...Magnus and Goldwater were wrong and you and Glenn are what?...sage right?
i doubt you are old enough to remember King and that era ...I do....thanks for playing the Beck kneepad game...you get a Beck chia plant
Beck said precisely on O’Cranky that homosexual marriage did him no harm...and he quoted Tom to bolster that...which is hardly ambivalent.
Beck makes historical claims that are either just wrong..MLK...or that are oversimplifications...Teddy Roosevelt.
Crowd?
LOL
Are you forgetting who was there with him?
I think Beck is screwy but you guys have fun...but he’s no conservative spokesman for me.
I like Sarah well enough. DeMint, Rush, Levin ..Haley Barbour and so forth.
I liked Beck at first but I cannot bear dishonesty. He is new Conservative Libertarian with little care about the culture war, typical for a late in life “convert”..... Good luck with that, I am not interested.
Beck is to me a 1968 moderate Democrat...JFK to Humphrey
Aww took about half your post to get to the real issue you have with him, he never said he was “in favor” of homosexual marriage ... he said he had other issues he was more concerned about. You know, sadly, you all expect him to take on the birth issue, marriage issue, abortion, etc, in fact you are all thinking micro and he is working at a macro level..... there is only so many issues one person can take on by his or herself... sad that you and others can’t understand that.
“King, Abernathy, John Lewis, Bond, Andrew Young, Jesse, and so forth...the only one from that era who resists that is Roy Innis”
Boy is that a fact. Innis is the only one of the bunch with anything resembling conservative instincts.
He claims MLK was a conservative in reality...total BS.
He thinks all that 60s Civil Rights legislation was great. I don't and neither did Goldwater or Reagan or Buckley...I prefer them.
He said this on homosexual marriage: “”Honestly, I think we have bigger fish to fry,” Beck said. “You can argue about abortion or gay marriage or whatever all you want. The country is burning down...I don't think marriage, that the government actually has anything to do with...that is a religious right.”
“Do you believe gay marriage is a threat to the country in any way?” O’Reilly asked.
“A threat to the country? No, I don't,” Beck said, laughing, adding mockingly, “Will the gays come and get us?”
Beck quoted Thomas Jefferson: “If it neither breaks my leg nor picks my pocket, what difference is it to me?””
doesn't sound like he opposes homo-marriage to me
Next....he claimed the anti-Islamic leader Gert Wilders in Holland a fascist.....not in my book.
He apologized for calling Obama an anti-white bigot. The same Obama who went to Wright's church for 23 years. Apologize for what?
He puts abortion on a back burner...ok...maybe he really is pro-life but doesn't think it's a top drawer issue...it is for me.
He's just not much of culture warrior despite invoking God more often than anyone I can recall.
I see him as a libertarian who found God late and can't stomach modern Democrats but doesn't like the social conservative right too much either. He would amade a nice moderate 1960s democrat like JFK whom he admires...and since Beck too likes all that civil rights legislation the moderate to liberal GOP and non southern Democrats passed then he would fit in with them too...Humphrey or Dirksen...take your pick. I prefer Reagan and Goldwater both of whom knew better and for good reason for the fear of where it would all lead...that was real conservatism...to me anyhow.
I don't agree with his denouncement of Teddy Roosevelt...Teddy had his flaws..some large.. but Beck couldn't carry his jockstrap, just a casual study of Teddy would tell anyone that quick. Teddy's progressivism was first about ending corruption and what to do with the vast rather poor labor class and a new tiny uber-rich class that could have ended up as Oligarchs which is how Teddy saw it...and where he went wrong imho.
He is ok about a lot of stuff and I have read two of his books but he is wacky and clownish to me and basically just misrepresents history to suit his aims.
I want no part of it but I probably woulda gone to see Palin whom I do like a lot.
That's about it.
You guys enjoy him by all means...not you I'm sure but I think many folks who folow his siren call are likely new conservatives and not very well informed on the history of it..like him.
sad isn’t it?
and Roy and Niger have taken heat for not being on the plantation for many years now
I saw Niger recently...could not believe how old he is now...his daddy must be 75(?) something
where was that big fight?
Roy decked Sharpton.
Morton Downey show?
Good guess. Roy is 76. And he indeed popped Jiffypop Al on Morton Downey.
“There is no room in this country for hyphenated Americanism. When I refer to hyphenated Americans, I do not refer to naturalized Americans. Some of the very best Americans I have ever known were naturalized Americans, Americans born abroad. But a hyphenated American is not an American at all.”
“This is just as true of the man who puts “native” before the hyphen as of the man who puts German or Irish or English or French before the hyphen. Americanism is a matter of the spirit and of the soul. Our allegiance must be purely to the United States. We must unsparingly condemn any man who holds any other allegiance.”
“But if he is heartily and singly loyal to this Republic, then no matter where he was born, he is just as good an American as any one else.”
“The one absolutely certain way of bringing this nation to ruin, of preventing all possibility of its continuing to be a nation at all, would be to permit it to become a tangle of squabbling nationalities, an intricate knot of German-Americans, Irish-Americans, English- Americans, French-Americans, Scandinavian- Americans, or Italian-Americans, each preserving its separate nationality, each at heart feeling more sympathy with Europeans of that nationality than with the other citizens of the American Republic.”
“The men who do not become Americans and nothing else are hyphenated Americans; and there ought to be no room for them in this country. The man who calls himself an American citizen and who yet shows by his actions that he is primarily the citizen of a foreign land, plays a thoroughly mischievous part in the life of our body politic. He has no place here; and the sooner he returns to the land to which he feels his real heart-allegiance, the better it will be for every good American.”
Theodore Roosevelt
Address to the Knights of Columbus
New York City- October 12th, 1915
no worries...in 40 years some “conservative” will claim Sharpton was a conservative compared to Khalid Mohammed and Roy was a bit a reactionary.
He is right, we do have bigger fish to fry — saving our Republic trumps all else... you will never find someone you agree with 100% of the time and I don’t Beck but the man has his heart in the right place and I salute him for that... he is the first person to tell you he is evolving, the more he reads and learns the more he evolves... actually that is a sign of a good person.. always open to take in more info.
fair enough...can’t argue with your logic there for supporting him
At least Beck mostly makes the right people angry. In Hitchhikers Guide to the Galaxy parlance, he’s Mostly Harmless.
But sometimes I roll my eyes in disbelief at things he manages to say. He reminds me of a couple of kids who worked for me when I was 20- at first I thought they were trying to annoy with some of the stunts they would pull. They weren’t. They were just the original Beavis and Butthead and on occasion could be unbelieveably dumb. Beck has a bit of that in him.
True.
“i doubt you are old enough to remember King and that era ...I do....thanks for playing the Beck kneepad game...you get a Beck chia plant”
I’m 62 so remember the times very well. As for MLK, I’m in South Carolina so if you think I’m not familiar quess again. MLK did not advocate for the government to “take care of the blacks” as is bellowed from voices like Sharpton. Alvida King told that again to Sharptons face on the Larry King show just a couple of nights ago. She has appeared on Becks TV show several times and has explained what she was taught by MLK, her father, and grandfather.
I will take her words as to what he believed.
The message that Beck presents is one that this nation needs to hear and he presents it well.
And just concentrating on the fruits of one flowery speech he did not even write from his own verse but which he delivered very effectively..
I would expect someone from Montgomery Alabama to know better.
And don't act dumb about Alveda. Sure she is sort of on our side but she has her own angle with her longstanding split with her family and Beck used that to his ends. Fair enough.
Beck thinks King is conservative.
Beck thinks homosexual marriage is harmless.
Beck thinks Teddy Roosevelt is the devil.
Beck thinks all the civil rights legislation of the 1960s was great.
Beck thinks abortion does not need to be on the front burner...his words.
Beck thinks Gert Wilders ..the one European willing to take on Islam..is a fascist.
Beck apologizes to our president who went to Wright's church for 23 years for calling him a bigot.
If that is your cup of tea then by all means have at it. I liked Beck at first and bought two of his books. I'll pass.
Beck's message is muddy and his own references simply inaccurate at times. Beck is like Oprah telling new Conservatives something they might can embrace instead of the red meat I've believed in since Jimmy Carter failed and Reagan rose.
Your my last word on Beck here btw. Unless something else breaks.
And don't even try to lecture me on black and white stuff. I grew up around Pat Derian and Hodding Carter, the Schutt family and other public civil rights activists in Mississippi and my dad helped pay for Vernon Dahmer’s funeral. They were prominent folks..my dad and grandad and were moderate on what was called the “negro issues” then. They both..my father in particular in Waveland MS took threats and property damage from the Klan. My grandfather was so ornery the Klan didn't mess with him and the Citizens Council left him alone when he refused to join. But both lamented how things went so far beyond the original intent of the late 50s and early 60s and they both knew King was basically a socialist as did I and as did even the media then. Have you even glanced at the SCLC members roll? I was very pro civil rights as kid and young man till I had to learn to live the cultural decay around me and the danger of being white in a mostly black world. I got out. Williamson county TN is spared that unlike Jackson or Memphis or NOLA and I resent it. We were foolish to allow it all to go overboard. It should have started and ended with voting rights enforcement but those who survived King always demanded more that just that as did he if his writing on wealth redistribution and redress for blacks are any indication.
It would take a “who you gonna believe me? or your lying eyes” moment not to see King for what he was ideologically but of course he looked better than Rap Brown or Stokley ...Reagan said it best when he signed the MLK holiday bill:
" This is not the reality but the perception and the perception has become the image which has become the reality...about King....paraphrased but close."
Beck takes that to another level.
you said: “I would expect someone from Montgomery Alabama to know better.”
I stopped reading right there. It’s obvious you don’t pay attention when reading. I am NOT from Mongomery and have never been. I said I am in South Carolina. You obviously project your bias when reading
I will not debate you any further on this subject. If you can’t grasp what you read there’s not much sense.
Put yourself in the place of all those nice people on the Mall Saturday. For years sadists have been drilling them and beating them down without mercy. And then comes good cop half of the tag team, Beck/Palin telling them the sadists have distorted the message and the messenger, but it is gonna be ok if you just believe. It is how cults are run, sweet sounding induction, breakdown by sadists, comfort by psychopaths, cult member for life.
On another thread you brag about having been in Montgomery after Katrina waiting to carry supplies to New Orleans which indicated that was your home ground...the staging area for Katrina was hardly in Montgomery as I recall and yes I participated in that too but for the coast not New Orleans...which btw....was not hurt as bad mass wise as my homestate but gets all the press due to many of it’s residents sort of imploding
ever wonder why?
i sure as hell know why and I bet you do too
if you are from South Carolina then same difference...you should know better than non southerners who barely know blacks outside TV who lecture us about civil rights and blacks and whites relations
there is no doubt in my mindwhatsoever than we all got along better before King and his associates efforts bore their fruit everyone so clamours over today
i have nothing for that or someone like beck who distorts it
if you want to get gaga over Kings colorblind rhetoric then fine..it indeed is inspirational but Beck goes way beyond that...that point is where Palin whom I do like stopped btw
for someone who invokes God as much as Beck does he sure misses the culture war by a far mark
good day...now you get the last word...lol..I swear to beck.
“MLK did not advocate for the government to “take care of the blacks” as is bellowed from voices like Sharpton. “
One does not have to be a communist to be concerned about this I would say to you this morning that one-tenth of one percent of the populatlon of this nation controls almost fifty percent of the wealth, and I don’t mind saylng that there’s something wrong with that.
I don’t mind saylng this morning that too often in capitalism we’ve taken necessities from the many to give luxuries to the few I will never be content, I will never rest until all of God’s children can have the basic necessitles of life (Amen, amen,amen) Oh, they tell me, and I think it’s true, that Atlanta has the finest homes for Negroes of any city in the United States (Yeah) That’s true Never forget that all these fine homes you see represent less than five percent of the Negro population of Atlanta I’m not concerned about five percent of the Negroes living all right (Well) I want to see all of God’s children (Yeah) with a decent home and three square meals a day and able to educate their children (Amen) God wants this for everybody ( Yes Jesus)
And I wll never be content as long as somebody over here can make five hundred thousand dollars a year, and I’ve met black men and women down in Mississippi who make less than five hundred dollars a year (Amen, Brother keep it going) Something wrong with that. ( Yes Jesus) And I see hungry boys and girls in this natlon and other natlons and think about the fact that we spend more than a million dollars a day storing surplus food (Yes) And I say to myself, “I know where we can store that food free of charge-in the wrinkled stomachs of the millions of people in our nation and in this world who go to bed hungry at night ” (Hungry at night) And God has left enough and to spare in this world for all of his children to have the basic necessities of life (Yes)
There is another thing Marx reveals the danger of the profit motive as the sole basis for an economic system We must heed this challenge I’m afraid that there are too many people in America concerned about making a living rather than making a life. (Yes, Yes) I’m afraid this morning there are too many medical doctors concerned about making a big salary and getting a big home and a fine car than there are about healing the sick bodies of men. I’m afraid that there are too many school teachers in Amenca more concerned about the check that comes at the first of the month than introducing their students to the great, inexhaushble treasuries of knowledge and lovlng them and watching them grow I’m afraid that there are too many preachers in the pulpit (Yes) more concerned (yes) about their anniversaries ( Yes) than they are about saving the souls of man. (Yeah) I’m afraid, my friends ( Yes, Go on), that we are prone to judge the success of our profession by the size of the wheel base ( Yes) of our automobiles (That’s right) rather than the size of our service to humanity (All right)
Something is telling us today (That’s true) that there is something more than making a lot of money (Yeah) We must make money to live, but we must always remember that money is just an ingredient in the objective which we seek in life (Yes) And if we don’t see that, we’ll make money-making an end rather than a means ( Amen ) Jesus said, “I know you need it I know you need money I know you have need of clothes I know you need a car to ride in I know you need a home to live in and to sleep in I know that you have need of all these things (Yeah) But seek ye first the kingdom of God ( yes) Seek ye first righteousness (Righteousness), and all of these (Yes) things wll be added unto you ” (Add them Lord) And this is what we must do. (Yes)
Let me rush on now toward my conclusion and say this We are challenged to dedicate and devote our lives to the cause of Christ as the communists do to communism We cannot accept their creed, but we must admire their dream (Yeah) and their readiness to sacrifice themselves to the very utmost and even to lay down their lives for a cause that they believe in, a cause that they believe is going to make the world a better place.
http://mlk-kpp01.stanford.edu/primarydocuments/Vol6/30Sept1962CanaChristianBeaCommunist.pdf
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