[marron]

I don’t agree.

I can do “lesser of evil” calculations as well as anyone.

But I’m looking for the whole package. If you don’t get “natural law” you probably don’t get the constitution either. If your morality is rooted in the culture rather than the transcendant you don’t have anyway of knowing when the culture has gone off the rails.

So, no, I’m not going to ignore the moral order. Separate from the moral order liberty can’t sustain itself. If a McCain is all we’ve got to go up against a raving communist, then fine, but the fact that after all of the backstabbing McCain has done, Arizonans reward him with high office, is itself evidence of a much deeper problem.

If you keep losing at the political level its because you’ve already lost at the deeper moral level. Your response has to be on both levels. You’ll never turn it around, though, if you can’t speak to the deeper moral law. Its not just about winning, if winning means electing people like McCain. You have to persuade and win with people who truly represent your views.

Is reelecting McCain a victory? For who, besides McCain?

[Lorianne]

It’s not either or.
It not that you don’t get natural law or don’t want moral order ... it’s that you want to strategically put more weight on fiscal issues ... in order to win.

Fiscal issues are a big winner at this point with many Democrats worried about tax and spend ... why not capitalize on that? You don’t have to toss your values in the trash to capitalize on a winning issue.