What's In a Name? (Vanity)

Vanity | 8/17/10 | Friend

[Yollopoliuhqui]

Satan was known to the ancient Hebrews as "Lightening from Heaven" which later evolved into "Lucifer" or "Light Bearer". Lightening (falling from) Heavens"!? In the New Testament Jesus said it in Luke- I beheld Satan as lightening from heaven, or falling from heaven.

How do those words sound in Hebrew?

> From Strong's Hebrew Dictionary, word number 1299 a primitive root word: lightening, cast forth, falling

BARAQ pronounced BAW-RAWK

And word number 1300, BARAQ, means lightening.

Satan has fallen from the heights or Heavens. The Hebrew word used for heights or heavens is Strong's Hebrew Word 1116. BAM MAH. to be high, heights, heavens.

It is pronounced: BAM-MAW.

The Hebrew U or O, is a conjunction to join words together. So to join in Hebrew the concept of lightening "falling from" heaven or the heights, BARAQ O BAM MAH would mean Lightening from Heaven.

So, if spoken by a Jew back then, "I beheld Satan" would have been- "Baraq O Bammah".

[philman_36]

The root idea of the verb b-r-k is "bend the knee," and the root is found throughout the Semitic family of languages' with this mean- ing.
How can the root be found if, as you're claiming, it is the root? You have to go to something before b-r-k (b-r-q) to get to the root. It's a derivative of the other, previous word.

[Charles Henrickson]

Look, are you saying the name “Barack” means “bless” or “lightning”? Those are two different words, with different final consonants. If you say “bless,” then you are right, and that is exactly what I have been saying all along. If you say “lightning,” then you are wrong.

[philman_36]

Holladay
A Concise Hebrew and Aramaic Lexicon of the Old Testament: Based upon the Lexical Work of Ludwig Koehler and Walter Baumgartner

(Waltke-O'Connor, p. 83).
An Introduction to Biblical Hebrew Syntax

(Harris-Archer-Waltke, p. 132).
Theological Wordbook of the Old Testament

You poor, poor man. No wonder you're so confused.

[Charles Henrickson]

OK, I’ll try again: What do you think the name “Barack” means?

[Charles Henrickson]

Are you disputing these standard reference works?

[xone]

I don’t know about the other guy, I was just busting your hump.

[philman_36]

Let's start this from the beginning so you're clear on who is saying what.
You made an assertion...The name “Barack” is NOT from “B-R-Q,” “lightning,” but rather from “B-R-K,” “bless.” Two entirely different words in the Hebrew, the last consonant is different.
I simply put up a Strong's link showing where your word "bless" was with a definition according to that august publication. I made no mention whatsoever in that reply about my previous reply 8.

Once again you commented, albeit to another poster...Whether in Hebrew or in Arabic--both Semitic languages--the root "B-R-K" means "to bless."
Once again at 28 I gave information showing that you were using the word wrongly and pointed out that your "root" argument was wrong..."which is where your word comes from."
I gave the phonetics, a counter argument disproving your assertion and then you started going off into a land unknown pushing your root argument all the way.

Then you asked...Are you saying that the name "Barack" is from the Semitic root "B-R-K," which means "bless" (and "kneel")? which wasn't what I was saying at all. Please note that I've never said what "the name" Barack means in any way whatsoever. I've only given well established definitions for words.
And then things gets interesting as you further state...If you are saying that the name "Barack" means "lightning," then you are mistaken, since that is a different word from a different root, "B-R-Q."
I've only given the meanings of certain words and countered you as to what the words mean and from where they come. You did something quite deceptive in that reply in that you've mixed replies in an effort to confuse. You went back to reply 8 where I linked two other words, not the word in contention, and have tried to paint me as ignorant. It isn't working, especially as I've now called you on it and anyone going back over this conversation can easily see what you've attempted to do.

[philman_36]

What do you think the name “Barack” means?
The name Barack, to me, means a fraudulent impostor illegally occupying the position of POTUS.

[philman_36]

Are you disputing these standard reference works?
Not that I'm aware of. I was feeling sorry for you in your, IMO, poor selection of learning material. Others, however, may feel differently about those particular works as you obviously do since you chose them.
Or were they required by the courses you're taking and mandatory purchases?

[Charles Henrickson]

Alright, to use Strong's references, then, if that's what you want to use, I am saying that the meaning of "Barack" is related to Strong's 1288, barak, "bless," and NOT to Strong's 1300, baraq, "lightning."

Which Strong's reference do you think it is related to?

[Charles Henrickson]

Where have you studied Hebrew, and for how long, and with what degrees? Which Hebrew reference works do you own and use?

[anniegetyourgun]

I won’t argue that - particularly since it’s not my main argument. The latter is - STOP MAJORING IN OBAMA...START MAJORING IN WHAT GOD HAS SAID, DONE & WILL DO.

[To Hell With Poverty]

Heh, as Judy Tenuta used to say “It could happen!”

[philman_36]

...I am saying that the meaning of "Barack" is related to Strong's 1288, barak, "bless," and NOT to Strong's 1300, baraq, "lightning."
I'm not saying that it's related to 1300 either. That's some more of your deliberate attempts at the confusion of two separate replies of mine. Not a nice thing for "a man of the cloth" to do.

Which Strong's reference do you think it is related to?
Since I haven't weighed in one way or the other till now I'll go with 1288.
Do you concede that 1289 isn't a root and 1288 is the root from whence 1289 came?

[philman_36]

Where have you studied Hebrew, and for how long, and with what degrees? Which Hebrew reference works do you own and use?
Are you suggesting that only a person who has taken classes, has degrees and uses certain books qualifies to have such a discussion with you?
You're a little too prying for my tastes.
IMO all you're doing is trying to paint a picture of incompetence, no matter how I answer.

[Charles Henrickson]

Since I haven't weighed in one way or the other till now I'll go with 1288.

Thank you! I agree! That's what I've been saying all along: "Barack" is from "bless" not "lightning." I am arguing against the opening post, which contends it means "lightning."

Do you concede that 1289 isn't a root and 1288 is the root from whence 1289 came?

There's nothing to "concede." Strong's 1289 is simply the Aramaic equivalent of the Hebrew 1288--as Strong's itself indicates:

http://jcsm.org/StudyCenter/kjvstrongs/STRHEB12.htm#S1289

brak
ber-ak'
(Aramaic) corresponding to 'barak' (1288):--bless, kneel.

[philman_36]

Strong's 1289 is simply the Aramaic equivalent of the Hebrew 1288
Right you are! Now, which word came first?

[philman_36]

Is my question too difficult?
It's an easy question...Which word came first?

[philman_36]

An introduction to biblical Hebrew syntax
By Bruce K. Waltke, Michael Patrick O'Connor

[philman_36]

An hour out and you still can’t answer a simple question?