In antiquity, the fundamentals of wealth would be first, lots of arable land with a water source, thus the riverine civilizations of antiquity. But the Greeks showed a counter-example to this. Name a river in Greece. Or the Minoan civilization. It seems both borrowed a lot of knowledge from Egypt, which had run its course as a great power.
Thus, land and food = leisure time for education and study, leading to knowledge, a permanent asset in exploiting nature. After knowledge reaches a critical point, the civs of the Nile, Tigris/Euphrates and Indus rivers lost their special advantage.
These older civs ran on slave labor. But when a civ uses knowledge as its primary tool, a lot of individual freedom is needed. Technology, of course, is the offspring of knowledge. Thus, the free Greeks defeated the hordes of Persia again and again, both because they were free, and wished to stay that way, and because their military technology was far advanced.
In order to keep freedom alive, it must be codified. The Romans and the Chinese were good at this, and it avoided a lot of conflict. Rome grew too big to defend it own borders, and the public spirit which enlivened it became degenerate hedonism. Mercenary Germanic troops rebeled and helped divide the empire, while huge migrations from central Asia finally took down both the Western and the Eastern Empire. That is what is starting to happen to us today.
So I have first, surplus food, leading to leisure, leading to knowledge, leading to technology. What brings otherwise successful civilizations down? Internal dissoluteness and external invasion. What could prevent this fate, for the US or any advanced tech civilization? A unifying, unyielding ethos and rational laws justly applied. The Founders provided us the basics for this, but warned that such a government was meant only for a moral people.
OK, there's my history in a nutshell.
Thanks for the ping. There are so many intelligent and plausible theories put forth here that I am sort of hesitant to say anything, but here goes.I'm glad you did!
In antiquity, the fundamentals of wealth would be first, lots of arable land with a water source, thus the riverine civilizations of antiquity. But the Greeks showed a counter-example to this. Name a river in Greece. Or the Minoan civilization. It seems both borrowed a lot of knowledge from Egypt, which had run its course as a great power.Greece is only about 30 percent arable land; the Eurotas river in the Peloponnese appears to have been the one naturally well-endowed ag area, and not surprisingly was powerful in classical times (Sparta enslaved nearly every Greek living in the Eurotas valley, and totally dominated (basically ruled) all other towns and villages there. Walling a settlement was not acceptable to the Spartans. Only after Thebes beat the Spartans' vaselined asses at Leuctra and freed the enslaved Greeks did city walls spring up all over the Peloponnese. Those walls kept those freed Greeks free.
Thus, land and food = leisure time for education and study, leading to knowledge, a permanent asset in exploiting nature. After knowledge reaches a critical point, the civs of the Nile, Tigris/Euphrates and Indus rivers lost their special advantage.I agree. What little is known in their own words of Mycenaean Greece has been translated from a fairly small body of Linear B tablets. These contain details of local economic activity, which was apparently at least minutely inventoried by, and probably controlled by, the state. Besides olive oil and wheat, slaves and flax products were apparently typical. The careful management of production led to surplus and political organization -- and trade, and wealth for the lords of the manors. Local sovereignty was so important that it took an outside invader -- Alexander the Great (and then the Romans, etc) -- to unify them.
These older civs ran on slave labor. But when a civ uses knowledge as its primary tool, a lot of individual freedom is needed. Technology, of course, is the offspring of knowledge. Thus, the free Greeks defeated the hordes of Persia again and again, both because they were free, and wished to stay that way, and because their military technology was far advancedThe Persians moved an immense army made up of more than two dozen ethnic groups drawn from all over the empire across Anatolia, across a pontoon bridge at the straits, and down into a mountainous peninsula. At one point Xerxes had a canal dug through a long narrow landmass in order to bring his fleet along a more favorable course. There was no comparison -- the Persian Empire had a huge superiority in military logistics and strategy, and a very deep well of manpower and wealth. The "free Greeks" consisted of groups of occasional soldiers trained in a very simple but very effective (and small) set of battlefield tactics -- as well as the standing army of Sparta, which was supported by a massive slave population eventually held in bondage for about two centuries.
In order to keep freedom alive, it must be codified. The Romans and the Chinese were good at this, and it avoided a lot of conflict. Rome grew too big to defend it own borders, and the public spirit which enlivened it became degenerate hedonism. Mercenary Germanic troops rebeled and helped divide the empire, while huge migrations from central Asia finally took down both the Western and the Eastern Empire. That is what is starting to happen to us today.Codified law is a necessary protection -- as "A Man For All Seasons" puts it, after you've knocked down all the laws to get at the Devil, and he turns round on you, where do you turn for help, all the laws being flat? The Romans had a massive set of books that were (like ours) made from both the legislation (including common law and local practice) and legal precedents from litigation results. There was an index, also from Roman times, that had made the massive body of law teachable, learnable, and usable. The index was the one part of the corpus of Roman law that survived into the Middle Ages, and was found (oddly enough) preserved in a library in Spain that had recently been liberated from the Moslems. That discovery revolutionized European law, and came along at a good time, because the bubonic plague destroyed the folklore-based settlement of disputes pretty much universal in feudal societies. The sage oldsters were simply not there due to sudden death, and the societies of Europe were having their props kicked out, because traditional ways (regardless of what they were locally) were shown to be unable to cope with or even anticipate such a disaster.
So I have first, surplus food, leading to leisure, leading to knowledge, leading to technology. What brings otherwise successful civilizations down? Internal dissoluteness and external invasion. What could prevent this fate, for the US or any advanced tech civilization? A unifying, unyielding ethos and rational laws justly applied. The Founders provided us the basics for this, but warned that such a government was meant only for a moral people.Wholeheartedly agree -- all civilization is based on agricultural surplus (and so far that has always included animal husbandry, i.e., meat); the centralized states of whatever size have been made possible (and really, made necessary) by food surplus. Standing armies to defend against external threats -- as well as internal ones -- were made possible by food surplus. Writing was necessitated by the needs of title to property, water rights, what we would call probate, and of course the collection of taxes (no joke, that). Once writing existed for one purpose, the recording of previously oral-only traditions made perfect sense, and helped homogenize culture, leading to a sense of nationality and national origin where it had never existed in quite that form.
Uh, okay, so, I may have gone a bit long there...
“Could it be I’ve carried this thing too far?” — Bugs Bunny