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"We tried to give them democracy and freedom, and neither seems to be taking root..."

And that is because the concept of individual liberty is so radical to the theocratic collectivist culture and systems of government across the middle east that liberty will never be allowed to flourish there unless Islam has a great schism which I can not see happening anytime soon.

I agree with the post that we should have left once sadaam was hanged and let them rise or fall on their own accord.

I agree with the post that we should have left once sadaam was hanged and let them rise or fall on their own accord.

The example I always give is that France helped us win the revolution, but the French King didn't do it out of some love for democracy. He did it to destabilize his rival Britain. The French also didn't stick around after Cornwallis surrendered to help us rebuild. The said Adieu and went back to Europe to deal with European issues. And Washington, Jefferson and Franklin go on with the job of welding 13 independently minded colonies into a nation. If they had failed and the infant US descended into chaos the French didn't care. They had dealt a blow to England, and that, not the founding of the United States was their goal in the war. Does that make the French bad people? No, we couldn't have won the revolution without them. But the enemy of my enemy is not my friend, he is my enemy's enemy no more and no less.