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To: TXnMA
Thanks; I did think it a shame that you hadn't previously gotten an answer to your question on the matter, because the fact is that Creationist Scientists really have done some fascinating (I think) work on the subject of Biblical-Creationary Spatial-Time Dilation. "Assuming the Hartnett–Carmeli theory is correct, the Universe rapidly expanded with massive time dilation as a result of very rapid acceleration of the fabric of space on Day 4."

So, I was pleased to offer my few musings on the sibject. It's not an area of expertise for me, but it is an area of interest.

346 posted on 07/03/2010 3:14:20 AM PDT by Christian_Capitalist (Taxation over 10% is Tyranny -- 1 Samuel 8:17)
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To: Christian_Capitalist; Alamo-Girl; betty boop
First of all, Thank you for answering! I hope for us to make and keep this a sharing between two Christian brothers. Others may (and probably will) chime in -- but this is intended as a friendly dialogue and sharing in fellowship between you, (Christian_Capitalist) and me (TXnMA) -- a born-again Christian and Creationist (who also happens to be a retired physical chemist.)

My question was, simply, "How many galaxies could Moses see?" (I mentioned nothing about the question of "distant starlight", per se -- so, you did a thorough job of chasing a rabbit that wasn't even running! <smile> However, if you'll bear with me while I "chase my 'galaxies rabbit", I 'll join you in a discussion of "distant starlight" later. -- OK?) ;-)

Your initial answer, "I assume that Moses could see roughly as many galaxies as we can see today. " is generally correct -- and spectacularly wrong!

~~~~~~~~~~~~~~

Since you are on the "US" message board, I assume that you and I share Moses' general observation location: the northern hemisphere. Moses, (if he had at least 20/20 eyesight) was, like us, able to see with his unaided eyes (all Moses had available) exactly two galaxies:

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1) M31 in Andromeda -- our own galaxy's nearest neighbor:

That image, of course, was made with a modern astronomical telescope and camera. To the unaided eye, M31 is a much smaller, fuzzier, and fainter "smudge" than even as shown in this extended-exposure photo.

In fact, M31 is so difficult to see with the unaided eye that, when I can see it, I know that the "seeing" conditions are good enough for me to go to the trouble of dragging out the big telescope...

But, with far less light pollution and clear desert skies, Moses almost certainly was able to see M31.

(That's one...)

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2) And, certainly, Moses could see part of the "Milky Way":

which is, of course, our own galaxy -- "from the inside"...

(That's two -- and that's all...)

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So, Your initial answer, "I assume that Moses could see roughly as many galaxies as we can see today (two -- with our unaided eyes). " is basically correct.

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However, praise the Lord, He equipped man with the brain and the hands to invent and make tools to augment his (unaided) eyes -- so we now have tools like the Hubble telescope to expand and extend our view and understanding of His created universe. Amazingly, whenever we point Hubble at an "empty" spot "between" nearby stars, we see something like this:

And, if we have Hubble "stare" at an "empty" space between those distant galaxies, we see something like this "Hubble Ultra deep field" image:

With the exception of less than a handul of nearby stars, every object in those last two Hubble images is a galaxy! That is more galaxies -- each composed of billions of "suns" -- in a space on the night sky you can cover with the head of a pin, held at arms length -- than we can count!!

And, everywhere we point Hubble, the density of galaxies is essentially the same.

I don't know about you, but the incomprehensible scope, complexity, magnitude -- and sheer majesty of even that mere glimpse of the extent of God's creation is almost more than my mind can comprehend.

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It is my viewpoint that, since our Creator has provided us with the wherewithal to "see" a much more grand and comprehensive view of His Creation than was available to Moses (or to Bishop Ussher, for that matter) we bear the burden and responsibility of having a much more grand -- and far less limited and limiting --conception of Him than it was possible for Moses (or Ussher) to achieve.

For, our Lord Himself, said:

"For unto whomsoever much is given, of him shall be much required: and to whom men have committed much, of him they will ask the more." (Luke 12:48b
(Scripture context and comentary at the link...)

~~~~~~~~~~~

OK, so far?

351 posted on 07/03/2010 12:30:19 PM PDT by TXnMA ("Allah": Satan's current alias...)
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