Posted on 06/18/2010 2:39:45 AM PDT by Scanian
Amtrak LA to NO presently 1900 miles / 46 hours = 41 mph (sheesh that's slow!)
LA to NO 1900 miles / 200 mph = 9.5 hours using your London to Edinburg technology.
See? What did I tell ya?
That's a heckuva nice train you got!!!
A real bargain for only $150 million/mile!!!
Now you don't have to buy the "roomette"!!!
What’s the cost Willie? How many will ride?
What’s the cost Willie? How many will ride?$2 Trillion over 20 years.
And those numbers prove it doesn’t work. Thanks for confirming the numbers which prove the insanity of high speed rail.
And those numbers prove it doesn’t work.
No, those numbers are only your "deployment" costs $26.67
And that Amtrak ticket of yours was $134.
So we still have a $107.33 profit margin traveling from LA to NO.
And now it only takes 9½ hours, so we don't need to buy a superliner roomette.
You need to pay attention better.
These are all your numbers.
You really should make some kind of effort to understand them better.
Willie, are you really this dense?
The current ticket price of $134 doesn’t cover the costs (in fact, it’s $32 under). And then you have to ADD the new deployment costs to it.
Meaning if you have 15 MILLION RIDERS A DAY (which is about 210 times MORE than you do now), and the deployment cost per rider is “only” $26.67, then you have a price of:
$134 + $32 + $26.67 = $192.67
At a minimum. Just to break even.
And that’s assuming an astronomical increase in ridership to spread the capital costs around. If daily ridership goes to 1.5 million (21 times more than today’s ridership) then your capital costs per rider are $266.67, and that train ride becomes $432.67.
And we haven’t even added the interest on the bonds to pay for deployment (which would be another $1.2 trillion, in addition to the $2 trillion for deployment).
Or is your contention that operational costs are zero once the trains are installed? Everyone works for free, and there is no wear-and-tear on the trains and tracks, they run on sunshine and hope so no cost for power, etc.
Seriously, can you NOT follow this? The deployment costs ALONE are huge, and would only ADD to the cost of existing tickets (which do not cover the costs as-is).
Seems so. But he REALLY likes choo-choo trains.
Most of the people pushing choo-choo trains are limousine leftists. They would love to force all the surfs onto The Peoples transportation. Just too damn much freedom goin' on oudaya!
The current ticket price of $134 doesn’t cover the costs (in fact, it’s $32 under). And then you have to ADD the new deployment costs to it.
Don't be silly... those are the old costs for the old Amtrak train.
We can't use those because we have a new train now and it runs much more efficiently.
So your "deployment" costs are still $26.67 And that Amtrak ticket of yours is still $134. And we still have a $107.33 profit margin traveling from LA to NO. And now it only takes 9½ hours, so we don't need to buy a superliner roomette.
So if you have other costs to account for, you have to take them out of that $107.33 profit margin.
But I don't see how you're gonna do it.
Trains are pretty efficient to operate, you know.
Especially after you cover your deployment costs, like you already did.
Willie, you’re an idiot. Plain and simple.
You’re blinded by some perceived “slight” at the hands of “Big Oil”, and you simply don’t want to - or even attempt to - make sense. Facts are wasted on you.
Get it together... You’re a laughingstock right now...
LLS
LLS
Facts are wasted on you.
You don't have facts.
I just successfully pointed out where your numbers were in error, and all you can do is start calling me names.
You lose. LOL!
Ciao.
Willie,
The facts are the $7 per gallon gas is the result of politics, not science.
The facts are that the deployment of high speed rail in the US is way beyond the subsidies that AMTRAK currently gets.
You can ignore the facts, plug your ears, and retreat to your world of hate, but it doesn’t change them at all. Twist as you try, and you come up short.
Sorry Willie, you lose. Ask anyone to read this thread and you’ll see how wrong you really are.
Seek help, Willie. You’re not mentally stable.
There are a couple of other small details that you miss.
When we are living the good life and go to town two or three times a week for groceries, a couple of bales of pine straw for the yard, take the kids to ball practice with all of their equipment, etc., we still must have a private vehicle capable of doing the job.
So for any trip under 300 miles, we are going to use our own wheels.
That is why you never will get high numbers riding the rails.
For 40 years, I had my own airplane. A good one that would make good speeds, fly ugly weather and carry all the luggage my wife and I needed when we traveled together.
After many years of loading the car at home, transferring it to the airplane, getting the rental car, transferring luggage to it, then transferring it to the hotel, then back the the rental car again, then back to the airplane, and finally back to the car at home...and then to the house, I quit using it for personal trips on anything under 250 miles.
Now traveling by myself on business or with a business partner or prospect when the trip was to be round trip in the same day, a different story. No luggage other than a brief case or two and no hold ups on the ramp.
You have the same problem with rail travel. Handling the luggage at both ends, twice on each end. is a pain the the ass and most people will drive for that reason.
You used New Orleans to LA as an example. OK, do you have 15 million people that want to ride that route from origin to destination?
And by the way, you would have to get all of the people that presently fly that route.
It would be interesting to know how many airline tickets are sold for that particular route each year.
The fact is that no rail system of any nature in the US is making money. That is why the railroads dropped passenger service in the first place.
The subway in NY and the EL in Chicago a special circumstances in a small part of the US.
Those of us in what the eastern elite refer to as “fly over country” live a different life and we are not about to give it up because some nutcase has his idea of how we should live.
I read something the other day that struck me as being at the heart of our problems today. “Conservatives are busy looking after the details of their lives and struggling to improve their lives.”
“While liberals are busy managing the lives of others.”
I wish you would pay more attention to yours and less to mine, thank you.
That said, I will waste no more time with what I believe to be a troll. I say troll because I really don’t believe anyone can be that stupid.
You know, it’s insane plans like this that are the best proof so far that Obama and the rats don’t plan on playing by the rules in the upcoming elections. You can’t pull off something like this and expect to win in election year.
You know, if more people were rational, a president who’s goals required disaster would be kicked out of office by now...and I mean literally.
When we are living the good life and go to town two or three times a week for groceries, a couple of bales of pine straw for the yard, take the kids to ball practice with all of their equipment, etc., we still must have a private vehicle capable of doing the job.
So for any trip under 300 miles, we are going to use our own wheels.
300 miles is a pretty long trip.
Usually takes at least 5~6 hours one way, perhaps a little longer considering rest/fuel stops, meals, traffic conditions, etc.
Most people don't travel that far just for groceries or to take the kids to ball practice.
You have the same problem with rail travel. Handling the luggage at both ends, twice on each end. is a pain the the ass and most people will drive for that reason.
Most people find Amtrak's Baggage Policy to be much more convenient than the airlines. Not only is the permissable size of carryon luggage larger than typical airlines, up to 3 pieces of check baggage are include free with your fare. Due to the much more restrictive space/weight limitations, airlines charge quite a bit extra if you have oversized baggage.
You used New Orleans to LA as an example. OK, do you have 15 million people that want to ride that route from origin to destination?
No, that was that other guys example.
I thought all his numbers were excessively trumped up from the get go...
But rather than dispute the numbers he assumed, I chose to utilize those mumbers and show how his analysis was also in error.
I think that 15 million per day figure was supposed to be a national figure, not just the LA to NO route.
The fact is that no rail system of any nature in the US is making money.
Not true. Amtrak's Acela Express and Northeast Regional Lines together carry 10 million passengers per year and pull in over half of Amtrak's total revenue. Other routes could become profitable if service improvements increase ridership above the breakeven point.
That is why the railroads dropped passenger service in the first place.That's not entirely accurate.
Yeah Puget! What are you doing calling people names? Who do you think you are, Willie Green?
Seattle to Portland, OR - a 180 mile, easy 3 hour drive - takes 5 hours by train. And you have to get to downtown Seattle either by bus, or pay $40 per night for parking. Airplane is $59 each way (half the cost of AMTRAK) and 40 minutes.
Seattle to Vancouver, BC - a 120, 2.5 hour (including border traffic) drive is 4 hours by train. It's 3 hours by bus. By train it's a $120 round trip; by bus it's $45. By car it's maybe $30. Air is about $100 round trip, and 30 minutes.
Real world, concrete examples where the train is the SLOWEST and most expensive option available. Which is nearly always the case. You get the least but pay the most.
No, that was that other guys example. I thought all his numbers were excessively trumped up from the get go...
Then what are good numbers? You are sure what aren't good numbers, but never supply what are good numbers. Make the case!
I think that 15 million per day figure was supposed to be a national figure, not just the LA to NO route.
Yes, national. And I made that absurd, absolutely ridiculously high estimate and even then the numbers don't work. You realize that AMTRAK has TOTAL ANNUAL ridership of 27 million people; I bumped that orders of magnitude and it still doesn't balance out.
Not true.
True. The pension costs for that run, the health costs, the management, track, and maintenance costs for that run are NOT included in the calculation. The only thing in the calculation to determine if it makes money or not is the daily operational cost. NOT the long-term support costs related to its operation.
AMTRAK doesn't make money. For it to make money you need to massively increase ticket prices (like tripling the ticket prices of those NE lines), and that will kill ridership, especially on those NE lines.
Passenger rail COULD have remained profitable and competitive had the Railroads chosen to discontinue freight service instead
Which is absolute insanity. Rail is ideally suited for freight, just like container ships are suited for freight. Planes and cars are suited for people, because time and flexibility count for a lot more than freight.
Not to mention that for most short-to-mid distance trips the bus is faster, and much more flexible.
If the concern is for use of energy, then Willie should push buses since they use 33% LESS energy per passenger mile than trains.
Oh, and Willie, about calling names? You called me a moron well before I said anything personal about you. Pot, look in the mirror and meet Mr. Kettle.
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