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To: Sub-Driver

Don’t believe everything you read, especially when it’s not put in context. Here are a few facts for comparison:

Utility transmission and distribution lines, the backbone of our electrical power system, are responsible for 130 to 174 million bird deaths a year in the U.S.1 Many of the affected birds are those with large wingspans, including raptors and waterfowl. While attempting to land on power lines and poles, birds are sometimes electrocuted when their wings span between two hot wires. Many other birds are killed as their flight paths intersect the power lines strung between poles and towers. One report states that: “for some types of birds, power line collisions appear to be a significant source of mortality.”2

Collisions with automobiles and trucks result in the deaths of between 60 and 80 million birds annually in the U.S.3 As more vehicles share the roadway, and our automotive society becomes more pervasive, these numbers will only increase. Our dependence on oil has taken its toll on birds too. Even the relatively high incidence of bird kills at Altamont Pass (about 92 per year) pales in comparison to the number of birds killed from the Exxon Valdez oil spill in Alaska. In fact, according to author Paul Gipe, the Altamont Pass wind farm would have to operate for 500 to 1000 years to “achieve” the same mortality level as the Exxon Valdez event in 1989.

Tall building and residential house windows also claim their share of birds. Some of the five million tall buildings in U.S. cities have been documented as being a chronic mortality problem for migrating birds. There are more than 100 million houses in the U.S. House windows are more of a problem for birds in rural areas than in cities or towns. While there are no required ongoing studies of bird mortality due to buildings or house windows, the best estimates put the toll due collisions with these structures at between 100 million and a staggering 1 billion deaths annually.

I can’t stand Obama any more than the rest of us, but wind energy is good.


8 posted on 06/07/2010 9:29:25 AM PDT by bigbob
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To: bigbob
Why is wind energy good?

To me, it's unsightly, and even worse, it's a pipe dream that isn't effective at all. Until someone figures how the electricity can be stored, it's expensive, erratic, takes way too much maintenance, and worst of all requires back up the equivalent of what the turbines can generate when there's no wind, therefore saves nothing

14 posted on 06/07/2010 9:34:29 AM PDT by Lakeshark (Thank a member of the US armed forces for their sacrifice)
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To: bigbob
"but wind energy is good."

Only if you are at a place where the wind blows regularly. At my house, solar panels would easily win the race, though they'd have to be actively moved to avoid the shadows of the trees.

15 posted on 06/07/2010 9:34:35 AM PDT by Paladin2
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To: bigbob
I can’t stand Obama any more than the rest of us, but wind energy is good.

Actually its a freakin joke that's criminal to force on the people.
21 posted on 06/07/2010 9:36:49 AM PDT by cripplecreek (Remember the River Raisin! (look it up))
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To: bigbob

Nice retort. I once killed an owl with a U-Haul while he was diving for his next meal. Flew right in front of me and I clipped him.


22 posted on 06/07/2010 9:37:45 AM PDT by LiberConservative
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To: bigbob
I can’t stand Obama any more than the rest of us, but wind energy is good.

Your bird death statistics are pretty incredible - it would be nice to see some links to back them up.

Even still, there is a serious issue about initial energy requirements in manufacturing and setup of windfarms - it takes them years to make up these costs. And then maintenance is a big problem - they have a lot of downtime.

In addition, they create a humming sound that is driving entire nearby towns crazy by preventing sleep.

31 posted on 06/07/2010 9:51:34 AM PDT by Talisker (When you find a turtle on top of a fence post, you can be damn sure it didn't get there on it's own.)
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To: bigbob

A useful compilation of statistics that helps us all understand why the term “bird brain” is so appropriate.

Wind power, of course, won’t obviate the need for transmission lines, so any bird mortality associated with wind farms themselves would be in addition to the mortality related to getting the electricity they generate to the places that need it.

In my mind, these statistics reinforce the merits of relying on mini-nuclear power plants of a size that can power 20,000 homes. Such a decentralized power source would obviate the need for the thousands of miles of power transmission lines that apparently cause birds so many problems; it would eliminate the problems caused by widespread power outages; and it would be infinitely more secure against terrorist attacks on the power grid. Since such plants would be buried underground, their aesthetic advantages over massive wind farms also should be pretty obvious.


41 posted on 06/07/2010 10:09:22 AM PDT by DrC
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To: bigbob

Geez...I don’t pay any more attention to the Chicken Little Cartel than I pay to the “employment” figures, since each only provide information the WANT us to read.

If we find a way to provide energy, we must also be aware of the side-effects. Kinda like eating chili and drinking beer in a room full of ladies.


46 posted on 06/07/2010 10:38:26 AM PDT by Monkey Face (I wear a yellow ribbon for my army hero grandson, and for the intrepid CG explorer!)
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To: bigbob

Fifteen years ago residents in the Altamont Pass area and near Mojave in the Techachi Pass, California were claiming that they found the remains of hundreds of raptors killed by the wind farms built there. Today, in both places, there are no reports of raptor sightings. Wind farms are a joke, pushed by rednecks like Boone Pickens.


47 posted on 06/07/2010 10:41:26 AM PDT by Melchior
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To: bigbob; All
Several years ago, I was working on a Critical Infrastructure security project, and was inspecting 500KV distribution stations for a major "southern" utility provider.

Their Security guys were pretty much like us - cynical, sardonic ex-military/cops.

After work one evening, they told us about a high-tension line (I think it was 500kv) tower that kept shorting out and essentially blowing all of the wire and insulators all over the place, causing major disruptions, and costing a ton of money to fix. It was located in the middle of a swamp, and completely unapproachable by land, so they had to perform all of the maintenance and repairs from helicopters. High dollar and high risk.

After the third such "blowout", they decided to install surveillance cameras and figure out the cause. Sure enough, Boom! out it went. When they checked the cameras they found that large Egrets (~40" wingspan, ~15-25 lbs) that were proliferant in that area would spend the day catching and eating fish, and then fly up to sun themselves on the top of the tower.

After some research and consultation with wildlife biologists, it was determined that the birds normal digestive process involved sitting in the sun, then "expelling" their daily digested "load" upon take-off from their sunning roost. They could only defecate upon take off. It wasn't their wings arcing across the lines, but long plumes of wet (and highly conductive) bird s&*t, crossing lines and causing major outages and hundreds of thousands of dollars in damage. Also essentially vaporizing the stupid birds, and dropping what little evidence there may have been to the swamp to be consumed by the creepy crawlys waiting below.

By building their tower in the middle of the natural habitat for that particular bird they had created an ideal, but terminal roost.

They installed wire spikes and rotating balls to prevent the birds from landing on the tower and forced them back into the trees where they belong. Worked like a charm.

I'm curious though. Why is wind power "good"? It's incredibly inefficient (2-15%), is difficult to transmit for any appreciable distance, is reliant on too many uncontrollable factors (weather, climate, location, political will, etc.) and is plain ugly to look at.

48 posted on 06/07/2010 10:52:32 AM PDT by conservativeharleyguy (Democrats: Over 60 million fooled daily!)
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To: bigbob
I can’t stand Obama any more than the rest of us, but wind energy is good.

No it isn't.
As long as it is subsidized by our taxpayer money, & supplmenented by traditional, coal, natural gas, oil, etc. Otherwise it is a losing, ugly, unsightly mess. I live approx 20 miles from hundreds of acres of wind turbines, and believe me, NOBODY wants to look at these from their house or farm. Cut off the subsidies, and these wind farms would die instantly. Talk about an ecological eyesore & disaster. I wish all the dumb ass liberals & eco-greenies who vote for & promote this green crap would wake up in the morning to the hundreds of these wind turbines humming in their back yards. I see the liberal elitists on Martha's Vineyard, including the Kennedy's didn't want these wind turbines in their yachting waters either.

63 posted on 06/07/2010 1:45:51 PM PDT by rcrngroup
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