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To: Vanders9

Sorry Vanders9 for the senseless death and injury of so many of your fellow countrymen and women.

As regards to your question, depending on the state in which someone would choose to do this, I do think that they might be stopped more quickly...or never start.

Here in the States there has been very interesting data which indicates that the ability to bear arms makes for polite neighbors. The tragic shootings I can recall here were in gun free zones.

Google John Lott- a fellow Marylander and research Professor who hastracked yankee crime rates for over a decade. Just published his most recent update- data shows where folks have an easier time of keeping/baring arms the crime rate is lower. Throw in a Castle Doctrine and it further improves.

Read an interesting history of gun regulation in your country. The picture I got was the gov’t was not enamoured of an armed populace; prohibiting handguns and making the process for owning a long gun quite onerous. Post WWII , as
the ships were sailing for the white cliffs of Dover, I read the government took back many of the weapons the troops had been using that were donated by US citizens?

Apologise for the wordy response, but this is an issue that fascinates me. I’ve a conservative British friend,
and we agree on much, but go ‘round and ‘round on this issue! He is convinced we yanks are barbarians. I agree- we disagree on whether that is a positive or negative attribute. Virtually all of the gun owners I know have successfully hunted and fed the family with the kill. None have had to shoot an intruder or other criminally minded type, but they all would, if needed. All are college-educated, white collar types. Barbarian or just aware of human foibles and unwilling to be a statistic?


89 posted on 06/02/2010 11:27:55 AM PDT by FreeStateYank (I want my country and constitution back, now!)
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To: FreeStateYank; All
Look, I have been sidetracked onto this by some of the quotes on this thread. The point I started out to make was that this is a tragic event and I dont think people should make assinine pavlov dog type statements about gun control based on it. It really is just not the time. I can say that because the people who died are not just my countrymen, they are my neighbours. I live in county Cumbria.> I have been thinking about this now for some time and I get the feeling that a lot of the invective coming from the Americans present could be based on the gun-control lobby holding up England as an example of the virtues of what they propose. Is that right?

If so, then I think you are both wrong.

One of the arguments often put forward by those who advocate "the right to bear arms" (most people on this board basically) is that "guns don't kill people. People kill people. Guns are just tools." That is 100% correct, but the argument cuts both ways. If that is true, it follows logically that the level of gun control in a particular locality matters very little compared to the relative willingness of people to pull triggers. Empirically you can see that as well. Britain has some of the most draconian gun-control laws in the world, and yet this is the third of these mass shootings in the past twenty years. Conversely, the US has much less gun control, and you have had even more of these events (although you are a larger and more populous country).

The obvious conclusion is that as far as crazies going on the rampage is concerned, the level of gun control doesn't matter very much. If it is high it doesn't encourage them, and if it is low it certainly does not deter them. It is simply invalid to use tragedies like this to promote the right of Americans to bear arms, especially when the event occured in another country with a different history and a different culture.

In the same way, that cultural and historical difference means that US gun-control lobbyists are also on shaky ground. There's no evidence that British style gun control laws would work exactly the same in America as they do in Britain. In fact I think I could guarantee that they wouldn't.

If you believe that Americans today have the right and indeed the duty to bear arms, that is a perfectly valid argument and a very defendable interpretation of the constitution. If you think that it is wrong for private citizens to own and use guns, that is also a valid argument, (but shakier when it comes to the constitution). Neither side has any need to look at what happens in the UK to make their arguments, and indeed it is a waste of time to do so, because the situation in the two countries is not the same.

My own personal viewpoint is that there will be now more calls to tighten the gun control laws in the UK. I think such controls will have zero impact on preventing tragedies like this and will instead do a lot of actual harm, including increasing the amount of violent crime. I intend to argue these points with my countrymen, but not just now. Everyone is emotional at the moment.

117 posted on 06/02/2010 3:36:06 PM PDT by Vanders9
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