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To: ducttape45

“And second, the Church will have to disappear. Paul wrote that Israel had been hardened in part until the full number of Gentiles has come in (Romans 11:25). That means as long as the Church is around Israel won’t be able to recognize God’s involvement in their national life. But the Battle of Ezekiel 38 will be such a miraculous victory that it will re-awaken Israel to God’s presence. This means the Dispensation of Grace will have come to an end and the Church will be gone by the time this battle comes to an end.” [from part 1]

The fullness of the Gentiles will come in but it doesn’t necessarily mean that as soon as the last 6 year old goes up to the altar or some bushman in a jungle confesses Christ that the trumps will sound and the church just disappears. I have some questions as to Mr. Kelly’s assertion that the Church is gone just as soon as the last gentile comes in then bam Israel finds God. God may find Israel and protect her as Ezekiel states...but events suggest that Israel hasn’t found Christ en masse(though many individual jews are being converted at an increasing rate right now) at that point hence the rebuild of the temple and the resumption of animal sacrifices when in fact Christ is the ultimate final sacrifice for all men!

The Bible verses that describe the rise of the “son of perdition” state that “even the elect” will have a difficult time not being deceived by this man; which suggests that there will be elect(ie the church) around to watch the “son of perdition” being revealed!

The New Testament states the Christ would not come until that “son of perdition first be revealed”. The fact that many Jews are already coming to Christ and increasing numbers are making Aliyah to Israel now suggests that the church has begun to reach fullness in terms of gentiles saved. Prophetic events dovetail, blend and merge as opposed to just simply happening in staccato fashion(a to b to c) like the wind that blows at first weakly then strongly then weakly again. The flow is constant and inexorable(”for the like the wind that comes and goes as it wills so does the Spirit of God”) until God’s ordained equilibrium is reached. Prophetic events need to be looked at 4 dimensionally as many will be occurring “concurrently” not just one after the other in chronological historic fashion.

God’s word is true and all things will happen as God ordains...but prepare for departures from man’s accepted narrative as to how things will happen. Christ says he “comes like a thief” in a way most unexpected so he says “be ready”. Christ first came at a time and in a manner quite out of the expected mainstream narrative...we have to be flexible enough to consider that end times events may occur in such a way as well. The book of Revelation describes multitudes of Saints killed for their refusal to worship the Beast and to take his mark...so the question of the church and events in the “latter days” is still open to some discussion.


118 posted on 05/26/2010 2:21:39 PM PDT by mdmathis6 (Mike Mathis is my name,opinions are my own,subject to flaming when deserved!)
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To: mdmathis6
I agree with some of your statements, and yes, even though Mr. Kelly's possible scenario gives us a good clue as to what will happen in the latter days, I'm sure things will not go exactly as he asserts.

The Rapture, the 2nd Coming, the Beast's revealing, all of these events will happen and for the most part we know the general order things will take place, but you are correct when you say that Jesus will come as a "thief in the night." The Bible even says as much.

I shared these links so that those who don't know anything about the dangerous times we live in will have some sense of what is to come and, generally, what to expect.

I am of a pre-Tribulation Rapture mindset and belive that Christians will be taken out before things really get bad, and I also believe that millions will be saved during the Tribulation but that they will have to die for their faith. But even if things don't pan out this way, I'm ready to give my life for Christ if that's what it ultimately boils down to.

Most importantly, I want to see as many people make it into the Kingdom before Satan is loosed upon the Earth. I hope we can agree on that.

Thanks for your insight my brother.

133 posted on 05/26/2010 3:52:02 PM PDT by ducttape45
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