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To: Buggman; Salem; Religion Moderator
In the case of Christian_Capitalist, from what I have seen in his posting history, he has been very consistant in his distaste for using U.S. assets to shore up any other nation. He is simply not making an exception for Israel. He has advocated entering into more mutually-beneficial technological arrangements with Israel and has stated his belief that Israel has a right to not only exist, but to possess the so-called "Palestinian" territories as well.

Well, from what I understand, the Israeli "Right of Return" Law applies to anyone who's one-quarter Jewish or more. I'm not sure that the same Right is extended to Jews who've become Christian (hence my grousing earlier about "equal rights for Messianic Jews"); but on the ethnic component alone, Mrs. Christian_Capitalist would qualify.

Ergo, if Mrs. C_C ever decided to exercise her own "Right of Return", I'd sure like there to be an actual Country of Israel there for us to live in. Y'see.

Incidentally, if Preterism leads inexorably to Anti-Semitism -- then when Mrs. C_C and I start having good little Preterist children, I shall be sure to teach them to hate themselves one-eighth of the time. I certainly would not want to be remiss in my Preterist duties.

96 posted on 05/10/2010 1:03:14 PM PDT by Christian_Capitalist (Taxation over 10% is Tyranny -- 1 Samuel 8:17)
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To: Christian_Capitalist
Well, from what I understand, the Israeli "Right of Return" Law applies to anyone who's one-quarter Jewish or more. I'm not sure that the same Right is extended to Jews who've become Christian . . .

It doesn't, but it's moving towards accepting Jews practicing Messianic Judaism rather than Christianity. We've been in some high-level discussions with the new Sanhedrin, and they're open to the possibility of considering Jews by birth (i.e., having a Jewish mother) who are practicing what is recognizably Judaism to make aliyah even if they profess belief in Yeshua. They've asked us to get our own Sanhedrin together--basically, a body authorized to speak for and make rulings for a significant percentage of the American Messianic movement--so that they can have someone to talk to. Given the fragmented nature of the Messianic movement, that's probably at least a decade off.

In the meantime, a Jew who was raised Jewish but has baptized as a Christian is not eligible for aliyah under the current laws. The reason is simple: For a couple of thousand years, Christianity has insisted that such converts stop being a part of the Jewish people. In a wierd sort of way, they're respecting the Christian interpretation that those who are "in Christ" are no longer Jewish (a distortion of "no more Jew or Greek").

Further, since the number of Christians in the world far outstrips the number of Jews, Israel fears a situation in which millions of Christians claiming Jewish blood through a grandparent might come in and take over demographically. The same concern is why the so-called "right of return" for the Palestinians is DOA in any negotations.

Incidentally, if Preterism leads inexorably to Anti-Semitism -- then when Mrs. C_C and I start having good little Preterist children, I shall be sure to teach them to hate themselves one-eighth of the time.

Actually, it's the other way around: Preterism comes from anti-Semitism, specifically, the anti-Semetic, pro-Roman situation of the 4th Century, when it emerged as an eschatological system. It was developed specifically to distance the Church from expectations of what would essentially be a Jewish overthrow of Roman paganism--not exactly an idea likely to help Christianity become and stay legal in the days after two failed revolutions in Judea.

Of course, after 1600 years, the original backdrop of the system has been forgotten, and arguments from the Scriptures developed. Such arguments have been made in ignorance of the original culture that gave us the Word, replacing a Jewish perspective with Greek beliefs heavily influenced by the same Platonic dualism that gave rise to Gnosticsm. Ergo, while certainly some modern preterists are anti-Semetic, the chief problem one should have with the system is not those supporters, but its origins and blatant de-contextualization of the prophetic Scriptures.

Shalom.

P.S. Have you ever traveled to Israel before? If not, I highly recommend it.

98 posted on 05/10/2010 2:33:26 PM PDT by Buggman (HebrewRoot.com - Baruch haBa b'Shem ADONAI!)
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