Posted on 05/05/2010 4:55:06 PM PDT by edcoil
In an 1856 letter to his wife Mary Custis Lee, Robert E. Lee called slavery "a moral and political evil." Yet he concluded that black slaves were immeasurably better off here than in Africa, morally, socially and physically.
The fact is large numbers of free Negroes owned black slaves; in fact, in numbers disproportionate to their representation in society at large. In 1860 only a small minority of whites owned slaves. According to the U.S. census report for that last year before the Civil War, there were nearly 27 million whites in the country. Some eight million of them lived in the slaveholding states.
The census also determined that there were fewer than 385,000 individuals who owned slaves (1). Even if all slaveholders had been white, that would amount to only 1.4 percent of whites in the country (or 4.8 percent of southern whites owning one or more slaves).
(Excerpt) Read more at americancivilwar.com ...
How are they lying? Clearly they only mention ownership of slaves. Ownership and living with slaves are not equal by any definition.
IIRC, THere were 600 black slave owners in the state of Maryland at the outbreak of Civil war (or War between the States.
BFD, so tyranny is an equal opportunity oppressor.
Reparations for slavery?
When a black woman is one of the richest people in America?
When a black man was Secretary of State??
When a black woman was Secretary of State?
When black men have sat — and do sit — on the Supreme Court??
When a black would-be despot sits in the White House?????
When countless black men have risen to the top of the ranks of the richest in professional sports and show business?? Men like Hank Aaron. Men like Bill Cosby who... (Never mind. As we all know, Bill’s either an Uncle Tom or Oreo Cookie, depending on which black race pimp you listen to.)
And, how about Liberation Theology?
Liberation from WHAT? The chance to achieve and succeed??
Give me a break!!
Let me make it clear right up front: I am NOT a racist. I supported Herman Cain in his run for the Senate. And if he ever runs again, I would probably support him again.
I also consider Thomas Sowell and Walter Williams two of the finest economists and minds extant today. In case you don’t know them, both are black.
Sowell, Williams and Cain – among others — have spoken out against those fellow blacks who castigate and vilify America for a slavery now long in our past. And ALL thinking men and women oppose the periodic calls for reparations. (When he ran, I supported Alan Keyes. I even spoke in his stead on the RTKABA at a Capitol rally and was asked to fill in for him on his radio show at the time. Sadly, while I still consider Alan a good man, I have had to rethink my support since he came out FOR reparations.)
The fact is that the modern descendants of slaves brought here in chains in admittedly miserable, soul-gutting conditions now calling for reparations need to remember something:
They should not only be glad to be in America, they should be glad to be ANYWHERE!
Had their ancestors NOT been brought OUT of Africa – many by Muslim slave raiders —the blood of those ancestors would have run into the earth over there several centuries ago, victims of the OTHER black tribes that captured them in one of the interminable tribal conflicts STILL ravaging that sad continent and these modern day would-be “plaintiffs” would not even exist.
And I would remind you that slavery is STILL practiced in parts of Africa (mainly by muslims) and Asia today.
95% of the African slaves who were transported across the Atlantic went to South and Central America, mainly to Portuguese, Spanish and French possessions, and that less than 5% of the slaves who crossed the Atlantic went to the United States, it was remarkable that the vast majority of academic research, films, books and articles concerning the slave trade concentrated only on the American involvement, as though slavery was a uniquely American aberration.
And should the great-great-great grandchildren of SLAVE OWNING BLACKS also be subject to PAYING these reparations? If so, how do we find THEM?
And I have traced MY family back to the SLAVS. Although the term looks to be related to “slave,” depending on your source, it either means “glory” or “worshipper.” But my family research indicates that many of my of my ancestors LIVED lives of virtual slavery to some despot or other. Do I qualify for reparations? From whom?? And it begs a question: Are most of us now living here are headed into a modern form off that servitude? But that’s a topic for another discussion.
The official US Census of 1830 lists 3,775 free blacks who owned 12,740 black slaves. Furthermore, the story outlines the history of slavery here, and the first slave owner, the Father of American slavery, was Mr Anthony Johnson, of Northampton, Virginia. His slave was John Casor, the first slave for life. Both were black Africans. The story is very readable, and outlines cases of free black women owning their husbands, free black parents selling their children into slavery to white owners, and absentee free black slave owners, who leased their slaves to plantation owners.
-”Selling Poor Steven”, American Heritage Magazine, Feb/Mar 1993 (Vol. 441) p 90
Of course, a full telling of Black History would not be complete without a telling of the origin of slavery in the Virginia colony:
Virginia, Guide to The Old Dominion, WPA Writers’ Program, Oxford University Press, NY, 1940, p. 378
And the holier-than-thou Northern liberals are strangely silent on recent archeological evidence from NEW YORK CITY clearly tracing the financing of the slave trade to NORTHERN BUSINESSMEN!!
At the height of his remarkable boxing career, Muhammad Ali (born Cassius Clay), once declared “I’m glad my great-grandpa got on that boat.”
And speaking of ancestors, my paternal grandmother’s daddy joined with the 80th Ohio Volunteer Infantry early in the War Between the States (reupped twice) and fought on the Union side at Chickamauga, Vicksburg, Jackson then joined up with Sherman for that infamous march to the sea through Georgia. My wife’s great-great grandpappy ALSO fought for the Union. While I revere the memory of my ancestors, inasmuch as that conflict was less about slavery than it was the economic exploitation and abuse of the South by the North, I fear they MAY have been on the wrong side.
Author Robert Hitt Neill tells of attending a Tennessee Mountain Writer’s Conference years ago with several other authors. Among them was Alex Hailey, celebrated author of “Roots.” Watching a TV news show, a group of them watched a demonstration in a Southern state against the “Rebel” flag incorporated into that state’s flag. The very next report covered a famine in Africa. Graphic images showed dead bodies, starving children with distended tummies and runny noses and dying people covered with flies, too weak to brush them away.
Mr. Hailey intoned in a low, serious voice, “Every time an American black sees a story like that, they should find a Confederate flag and kiss it.” He then pointed to the TV screen and continued, “Because these would be me and my descendants, except for American slavery. I thank God that my family and I are here instead of there.”
Next problem!
Dick Bachert
bump
Reparations for slavery?
When a black woman is one of the richest people in America?
When a black man was Secretary of State??
When a black woman was Secretary of State?
When black men have sat — and do sit — on the Supreme Court??
When a black would-be despot sits in the White House?????
When countless black men have risen to the top of the ranks of the richest in professional sports and show business?? Men like Hank Aaron. Men like Bill Cosby who... (Never mind. As we all know, Bill’s either an Uncle Tom or Oreo Cookie, depending on which black race pimp you listen to.)
And, how about Liberation Theology?
Liberation from WHAT? The chance to achieve and succeed??
Give me a break!!
Let me make it clear right up front: I am NOT a racist. I supported Herman Cain in his run for the Senate. And if he ever runs again, I would probably support him again.
I also consider Thomas Sowell and Walter Williams two of the finest economists and minds extant today. In case you don’t know them, both are black.
Sowell, Williams and Cain – among others — have spoken out against those fellow blacks who castigate and vilify America for a slavery now long in our past. And ALL thinking men and women oppose the periodic calls for reparations. (When he ran, I supported Alan Keyes. I even spoke in his stead on the RTKABA at a Capitol rally and was asked to fill in for him on his radio show at the time. Sadly, while I still consider Alan a good man, I have had to rethink my support since he came out FOR reparations.)
The fact is that the modern descendants of slaves brought here in chains in admittedly miserable, soul-gutting conditions now calling for reparations need to remember something:
They should not only be glad to be in America, they should be glad to be ANYWHERE!
Had their ancestors NOT been brought OUT of Africa – many by Muslim slave raiders —the blood of those ancestors would have run into the earth over there several centuries ago, victims of the OTHER black tribes that captured them in one of the interminable tribal conflicts STILL ravaging that sad continent and these modern day would-be “plaintiffs” would not even exist.
And I would remind you that slavery is STILL practiced in parts of Africa (mainly by muslims) and Asia today.
95% of the African slaves who were transported across the Atlantic went to South and Central America, mainly to Portuguese, Spanish and French possessions, and that less than 5% of the slaves who crossed the Atlantic went to the United States, it was remarkable that the vast majority of academic research, films, books and articles concerning the slave trade concentrated only on the American involvement, as though slavery was a uniquely American aberration.
And should the great-great-great grandchildren of SLAVE OWNING BLACKS also be subject to PAYING these reparations? If so, how do we find THEM?
And I have traced MY family back to the SLAVS. Although the term looks to be related to “slave,” depending on your source, it either means “glory” or “worshipper.” But my family research indicates that many of my of my ancestors LIVED lives of virtual slavery to some despot or other. Do I qualify for reparations? From whom?? And it begs a question: Are most of us now living here are headed into a modern form off that servitude? But that’s a topic for another discussion.
The official US Census of 1830 lists 3,775 free blacks who owned 12,740 black slaves. Furthermore, the story outlines the history of slavery here, and the first slave owner, the Father of American slavery, was Mr Anthony Johnson, of Northampton, Virginia. His slave was John Casor, the first slave for life. Both were black Africans. The story is very readable, and outlines cases of free black women owning their husbands, free black parents selling their children into slavery to white owners, and absentee free black slave owners, who leased their slaves to plantation owners.
-”Selling Poor Steven”, American Heritage Magazine, Feb/Mar 1993 (Vol. 441) p 90
Of course, a full telling of Black History would not be complete without a telling of the origin of slavery in the Virginia colony:
Virginia, Guide to The Old Dominion, WPA Writers’ Program, Oxford University Press, NY, 1940, p. 378
And the holier-than-thou Northern liberals are strangely silent on recent archeological evidence from NEW YORK CITY clearly tracing the financing of the slave trade to NORTHERN BUSINESSMEN!!
At the height of his remarkable boxing career, Muhammad Ali (born Cassius Clay), once declared “I’m glad my great-grandpa got on that boat.”
And speaking of ancestors, my paternal grandmother’s daddy joined with the 80th Ohio Volunteer Infantry early in the War Between the States (reupped twice) and fought on the Union side at Chickamauga, Vicksburg, Jackson then joined up with Sherman for that infamous march to the sea through Georgia. My wife’s great-great grandpappy ALSO fought for the Union. While I revere the memory of my ancestors, inasmuch as that conflict was less about slavery than it was the economic exploitation and abuse of the South by the North, I fear they MAY have been on the wrong side.
Author Robert Hitt Neill tells of attending a Tennessee Mountain Writer’s Conference years ago with several other authors. Among them was Alex Hailey, celebrated author of “Roots.” Watching a TV news show, a group of them watched a demonstration in a Southern state against the “Rebel” flag incorporated into that state’s flag. The very next report covered a famine in Africa. Graphic images showed dead bodies, starving children with distended tummies and runny noses and dying people covered with flies, too weak to brush them away.
Mr. Hailey intoned in a low, serious voice, “Every time an American black sees a story like that, they should find a Confederate flag and kiss it.” He then pointed to the TV screen and continued, “Because these would be me and my descendants, except for American slavery. I thank God that my family and I are here instead of there.”
Next problem!
Dick Bachert
In one of many Louisiana plantations we visted, one said some of it’s slaves owned businesses in New Orleans that allowed them to leave the plantation and see about them.
It’s a good thing when the young learn the truth,,,
I remember well when my Gra`Ma told me about where and why
my kin fought in the “War of Northern Aggression”,,,
Yes,,,They saved the farm...
For instance, sources indicate there were 125 black slave owners in South Carolina, 89 in North Carolina, and 3000 in New Orleans alone.
“Communism was a form of slavery”
So is socialism. In fact, the only freedom is what we had and our government has taken from us.
What about the black slave owners?
Shhhh! You are not supposed to talk about this...
What about the black and brown slave sellers (Arabs and black Africans) who sold their people and other people into slavery? You can’t blame slavery on white people when black and brown were on the other side of almost every deal.
My original ancestor to this country settled in Virginia in 1692 and following generations moved to Tennessee, Alabama, Arkansas and Missouri. I cannot find a record of even one of them owning a slave. I suspect it was because they were too poor as they were mostly small farmers and some share croppers. Being southerners they fought on the side of the confederacy.
I’m not ashamed of that. They fought and died for a cause they believed in.
On my mother’s side I am a direct descendant of John Brown - I’m not ashamed of that either.
No, but you can fairly blame it on the RATs!
Nor am I ashamed to be a Texan. More than a dozen members of my family fought for the South including B L Taylor, Capt 4th Texas Calvary - General Mouton, 18 Louisiana Inf. - and Major Gen Gardiner.
This black, Washington Post liberal, thanked the slavers for getting his ancestors to America, after he served in Africa as the WP Africa Bureau Chief.
http://www.amazon.com/Out-America-Black-Confronts-Africa/dp/0465001882/ref=pd_sim_b_3
That is the same exact argument that leftists often used to defend the Soviet Union during the Cold War. They said that the average quality of life of Russians under communism, was higher than it was under the Tsars.
They pointed out that Russians under Brezhnev, were better educated, had better health care, and were better fed, than under the Tsars. And they had the life expectancy statistics to make their case. Would you argue that communism was good for Russians?
It is better to be poor and free, than to be well-fed and in slavery.
_____________________
The problem with the argument of the Soviets was, they were lying. The people of Russia were “free” under neither the Tsars nor the Communists. YOU think Brezhnev’s party people were telling the truth?! If they did, do you think they lived? Do you think if the people protested, THEY somehow managed to remain alive AND outside the Siberian GULAG? Uh, NO.
With regard to the problem of your applying the plight of the Russian people to that of Africans, it’s apples & oranges.
Quite clearly, most Africans would have probably rather remained in their native lands and been free. But, let’s face it, that wasn’t always possible, especially in Africa. Consider the fickle climate and tendency of the continent to experience famines, not to mention the nature of the peoples to tribal warfare and despotic governments and repression, and you might understand why Africa was inhospitable to a great number of people who wished to be BOTH free AND prosperous. Now, lest you suggest I am being “racist” in my thesis, I’d recommend you read the works of the good Dr. Thomas Sowell, especially “Conquests and Cultures,” “Race and Culture,” and “Migrations and Cultures.”
A second major problem you have is that Europeans and Africans had a tendency to be, well, “Libertarian Capitalists” shall we say? They rarely let their morals get in the way of a good deal. Slavery, contrary to the modern mythos of the Obamunists, did not begin in the American South, but in Europe - or maybe more accurately, in Africa itself. It was transplanted naturally into the Caribbean and the North, Central and South American colonies by most of the European Colonial powers. Natives were enslaved in the Americas and on the Islands, and as the triangular trade routes in the Atlantic developed in the late 1500’s through the 1700’s, from Europe to the South/Central AMerican Colonies or the Caribbean and then to North America and then back to Europe, the trade of slaves fit nicely into the scheme. And don’t believe for a second that mean white Europeans or American Colonists went deep into the interior of Sub-Saharan Africa to capture poor, unsuspecting, peaceful tribesmen (ala “Roots”). Some good reading on this topic would be “Slavery, Terrorism & Islam” by Dr. Peter Hammond,because Islamic slavers figure prominently into the picture, though politically correct scholarship likes to hide ANY negative reflections on either African or Muslim involvement in slavery. Another place to find source material about this topic is www.africawithin.com/kwaku/afrikan_involvement.htm . NOT a “friendly” site, but on this topic, acknowledges the facts...
Likewise, scholars refuse to admit that once chattel slavery was built into the agrarian system particularly in the South, that the people who profited the most from trafficking in, transporting and selling slaves were NOT in plantations “away down south in Dixie,” but a way up North in New England.” I can hear the screams of the Yankee apologists now, but I would commend to your further reading “Complicity: How the North Promoted, Prolonged, and Profited from Slavery” by Anne Farrow and a very practical and succinct couple of chapters in “The Politically Incorrect Guide to the South” by Clint Johnson.
Much more could be said to counter the fallacies of your argument, from false Soviet premise you suggest, and from the far too complex and historic realities of slavery in North America that you compare it to. Nice try though.
Great post! Many thanks for sharing your insight.
Mr. Bachert,
EXCELLENT contribution to this thread! As a direct descendent of a member of the North Carolina 51st Infantry Regiment who was seeking to repel that rascal Sherman and his blue-coated buddies, I’m thinking you and I would get along quite well these days! :-)
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