Posted on 04/23/2010 6:18:25 PM PDT by bushpilot1
Obama's supporters state there is no record the Founders used Vattel.
The second page shows the addition natural born citizen in 1787, the third page references Vattel.
That I do not know for certain. The language of the British act would seem to imply that he’s still a citizen. Kenya’s claim lapsed just after the age of majority. Indonesia is a mystery, but if there were to be some affirmative act as far as citizenship in another nation, seeing as how he was expatriated with his mother and stepfather as a child, then there could be a problem as far as having retained his US citizenship. Claiming foreign aid in the United States could represent just such an affirmative act, but I’m merely speculating.
Obama is uniquely questionable among all the Presidents that we have ever had. His legal father was a nonresident alien. The marriage of his parents has come under question due to the possibility of bigamy, but that is a big question mark, since the supposed Kenyan marriage was tribal. He was adopted. He lived in Indonesia and attended school there under a military regime that was known for strict citizenhsip requirements in order to even attend school and the country did not allow dual citizenship. Obama’s being a minor child at the time would seem to preclude his having lost his US citizenship due to the actions of his parents, but then again you have him reaching the age of majority and spending time there. His name has been changed at least twice, from his birth name to Soetoro and back again, or maybe not, we just don’t know. He’s a complete cipher.
we have two words..indigenes found in Vattel and de ingenuis found in The Institutes of Justinian..
indigenes-native..
de ingenuis..a person who is free from the moment of his birth who have been either both born free or made free
natural..law.. the way which we are placed into the world by our birth natural law..the highest rule of human conduct as imposed by God on man..
natural born..sujets naturels..natural subjects..natural born subjects..
Comments?
The Institutes of Justinian...
going thru the books the founders had in their possession..
cognati..ties of blood..
sui juris..all descendents through the male line were in his power.
what the son acquired belongs to the father..
can Latin de ingenuis migrate to the french..indigenes
Article III..natural born subjects...sujets naturels
You’re really digging in. Keep posting your findings and questions.
Researching application of natural law to citizens, rather than subjects of a monarchy, is going to be the more fruitful direction, imho.
Liebniz and Spinoza will help you bridge the Roman Republic to the constitutional republic of Vattel and on to the Constitution of the United States. Gottfried Liebniz approached natural law through a Christian point of view. Baruch Spinoza was more abstract and has been considered a deist by some. He certainly influenced deism from a political standpoint, in England, the United States and elsewhere.
How can property be a natural born citizen?
You’re going to have to elaborate. Are you referring to slavery?
who were the foreigners..Africans, immigrants..foreign representatives..
Africans were considered property by the Founders.
No Africans immigrated, they were forced. If the founders considered them property..it is impossible to be NBC. Read the books the founders had..all so far point to the Founders not wanting Africans (property) in the government.
They could not naturalize.
Jus Quiritium
it was the 18th century a very different world.
You need to look at the former institutions of bondage themselves and not the origins of the people under it. There were freemen who were African. There were British who were bound.
Specific to the Constitutional question at hand, the attitudes of the men who were our Founders and the intent of the language that they included is all that matters, from the mid-18th century. They were breaking away from a monarchy and establishing a constitutional republic, the first since the fall of Rome.
It was in many ways a novel undertaking, but the guiding philosophies behind the establishment of the nation had ample precedent. That precedent was not always out of England, however. They had fought a war, and would fight another with England.
Do u have Justinian’s book? It covers everything..it is on line.
Of course the "children follow the condition of their fathers" pretty much makes O a British Subject at birth, but also a de jure US citizen, under the 14th amendment, IF he was born in the US. Born in US or not, he's not natural born.
Yes, he has and had a nice ranch in Wyoming. He was in his 6th term as the Congressman from there before becoming SecDef under GHW Bush. It was where he grew up and where he got his BA and MA. After he left Nebraska that is. That's where he was born. In Lincoln, same as me, but he's almost 9 years older
I don't know that it was ever in there. New York may have wanted it in there, but that doesn't mean it was ever in any draft version.
Sure they have. Anyone born outside the country, but a citizen at birth under statue law (not including the children of diplomats and military stationed abroad), is a naturalized citizen. One of the more recent cases is Rogers v. Bellei, 401 U.S. 815 (1971). There's a good discussion, with links to the relevant cases at Justicia Naturalization and Citizenship
“or citizen” was removed 7 September 1787.
Only the VP need be eligible. However if the normal sucession process would ever get to someone other than the VP, and they were not eligible, they would be "skipped" and the next eligible person in line would become President. However because of the 25th amendment, which provides for filling Vice Presidential vacancies, the situation is unlikely to come up in an sceario less disasterous than DC getting nuked or possibly a plauge of some sort, deliverate or not.
Disclaimer: Opinions posted on Free Republic are those of the individual posters and do not necessarily represent the opinion of Free Republic or its management. All materials posted herein are protected by copyright law and the exemption for fair use of copyrighted works.