Matthews Challenges 2nd Amendment Advocate Over…Bazookas?

http://radioviceonline.com/ ^ | April 20, 2010 | Jim Vicevich

[Old Teufel Hunden]

"hmmm...so now you are willing to move beyond select fire rifles..."

Show me a post where I said the second amendment only applied to select fire rifles? Stop putting words in my mouth! I do think that the second amendment applies to more than what is allowed today. I just don't think it applies to nukes and other large destructive devices.

[Old Teufel Hunden]

"Almost anything under the sun can be used as a weapon."

But everything under the sun is not an arm. The 2A says keep and bear arms not weapons!!

A plane is not an arm, therefore we have no right via the 2A to own an F-18. A car can be a weapon, but is not an arm, therefore we have no right to own a car under the 2A.

[Dead Corpse]

It's irrelevant. No evasion necessary. You are trying to bolster your position, but aren't doing a very good job of it.

After that war, fought mainly by our militia, we were soundly beaten by a professional army and he changed his mind on that subject.

Um... We "lost" the war of 1812? I must have missed that in my last reading of the Treaty of Ghent.

[Dead Corpse]

The 2A says keep and bear arms not weapons!!

Out of curiosity, what is your definition of the word "is"?

[Old Teufel Hunden]

"Um... We "lost" the war of 1812? I must have missed that in my last reading of the Treaty of Ghent."

Technically, it was a stalemate. That is because the British no longer wanted to fight. The Napoleonic wars were over (save for Napoleans last 100 days war that culminated at Waterloo) and the original reason for fighting (naval impressment of our citizens) was no longer needed. They had no reason to further fight us.

We got our capital burned, lost numerous forts along the frontier. The only wins we really had at that point were some naval battles on Lake Erie. We either fought to a draw in most places or lost. The treaty of Ghent was concluded before the Battle of New Orleans. That Battle after the war was over was truly our only decisive victory and we had already concluded the war. If you read a lot of historians, they truly believe we lost the war and England just did not want to continue prosecuting it.

[Old Teufel Hunden]

So you’re saying there’s no difference between the definition of arms and weapons? So a car can be considered an arm (2a definition)? Because a car can certainly be considered a weapon. A platic bag can be a weapon through strangulation. Is it an arm in your world?

[Dead Corpse]

Despite the facts that we took back most of the land lost in the Great Lakes and were fighting back even their seasoned troops from the Napoleonic campaigns? Don't even get me started on our Privateers having them outnumbered and inflicting heavy damage on the Seas.

Care to set up any other dodges and rabbit trails?

[Dead Corpse]

A car being used as a weapon is not an "armament"? If you are attacking someone with your car, what are you "armed" with?

More fail on your part...

[Gilbo_3]

Look down the bore of a 32-pound gun from the late 1700's and tell me the Founders didn't know exactly what they were purposing...

indeed, they privately owned firepower in a broadside usage would certainly be [and IIRC was used for] capable of usage in laying waste to entire coastal cities...evidenc of the possession of weapons 'of mass destruction' in citizens control, for lawful and responsible usage...no different than your 'controlled' substances of dynamite & caps, which any farmer routinely used and could buy at many avg Ag supply storesin a FReer day before incremental slavery by socialism...

[Gilbo_3]

Show me a post where I said the second amendment only applied to select fire rifles? Stop putting words in my mouth! I do think that the second amendment applies to more than what is allowed today.

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A regular soldiers arms are fully auto M-16s and sidearms. The only change I would make to what we are allowed to have is that our semi autos should be fully auto.

31 posted on Tuesday, April 20, 2010 12:38:04 PM by Old Teufel Hunden

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stop lying and moving the goalposts while yer at it...

[Gilbo_3]

a plane is a platform, just as a ship...when its armed, it can bite...without the need to sacrifice the platform in a kamikazi/jihadi fashion...

[Old Teufel Hunden]

Private citizens do own armed boats. Look at the security companies that offer services to protect shipping companies from Somali Pirates in the Gulf of Aden. Blackwater or whatever they are called now used to do this last year. Not sure if they are still doing it. This is already allowed in our government. Probably have to go through hoops to do it. Not sure because I don’t know the process. I’m not moving any goalposts. It’s already allowed.

[Old Teufel Hunden]

"Care to set up any other dodges and rabbit trails?"

Did I not mention the victories on Lake Erie? Should I have to quote Oliver Perry next? We have met the enemy and they are ours.

[Gilbo_3]

Ahem, said goalposts were your own words, which you should at least man up and acknowledge...stating, as a Marine that you carried more than you would allow a citizen, in your own definition of 'soldier's arms' in this present day, is a hypocritical statement or an attempt to cya with a lie...

destroys yer credibility, what little there is of it...

[Dead Corpse]

Quote away if it is germane to the topic. Somehow, I doubt it.

The Second Amendment is what it is. What it is today though, is not what it should be.

If we start giving in to the liberals idiotic logic and start drawing arbitrary and unnecessary lines all over the place, we surrender the argument.

Don't do that. We are in bad enough shape as it is...

[Gilbo_3]

For instance, as a Marine (soldier of the sea) I carried a lot of things. I even carried 60 mm mortar rounds from time to time.

i figgured i better save time and pull yer words from post 145 before you lied again...

[Old Teufel Hunden]

You bore me. Where’s your credibility? Private companies owned by private citizens are now in posession of armed boats and you go on and on ranting about how we should be allowed to own them.

[Old Teufel Hunden]

"The Second Amendment is what it is. What it is today though, is not what it should be."

I agree. It should be expanded. I just don't think it includes WMDs such as nukes. But go ahead and keep insulting me for that "ludicrus" position.

[Gilbo_3]

now youre trying to put words in my mouth...pathetic...

[Old Teufel Hunden]

"now youre trying to put words in my mouth...pathetic... "

"indeed, they privately owned firepower in a broadside usage would certainly be [and IIRC was used for] capable of usage in laying waste to entire coastal cities...evidenc of the possession of weapons 'of mass destruction' in citizens control"

Where does that broadside come from? Oh yeah, privately owned and armed boats. You = no credibility.