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To: curiosity
So? How else are babies born outside of hospitals supposed to get birth certificates?

Let's ask Obama. He should know.

Sure it does, in so far as the person reporting the birth would have to have committed fraud in order to get a foriegn birth registered. There was no provision under Hawaiian law at the time for the registration of births outside the state.

Sorry but the 1961 natality reports said there 366 births out-of-state to Hawaiians and part-Hawaiians. These statistics were reported by the people who give birth certificates.

Do you have any proof that Obama's birth was fraudulantly registered?

You mean like listing an address where the parents didn't reside??

Perhaps it could be. My point is that such an act would involve felony fraud and possibly pergury.

Which makes it all the more imperative that we have full disclosure.

It is you who are spouting nonsense. While it is true SAD was too young to automatically pass her citizenship on to her son, as the child of a US citizen, he was eligible for naturalized citizenship. If he was born, all she would have to do get him naturalized would be to fill out an application at the nearest consulate and provide proof of her own citizenship and maternity.

Perhaps if she was aware of the procedures and was near a consulate. It would have been a lot easier to contact Granny and let her file paperwork with the Hawaii registrar.

Why commmit a felony to secure his citizenship, when it could all be done perfectly legally?

I can think of several reasons: Easier to register birth in Hawaii, desire to avoid telling people her child was born in Kenya, unaware of naturalization laws, don't think they'll be caught.

Never mind the fact that there isn't a shred of evidence that such a fraud took place, or the she ever set foot in Kenya, let alone gave birth there.

Better tell that to Michelle "Kenya is my husband's home country" Obama. Right now we have plenty of evidence of fraud: false certificate number, mismatching COLBs, unconfirmed COLB, the DOH violating its own laws to avoid disclosing legal information, etc.

182 posted on 04/20/2010 11:11:02 PM PDT by edge919
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To: edge919
Before I reply to your specific points, let me review what we have established:

1) We know the birth was registered within days of it taking place because the Health Department placed birth announcements in the papers.

2) We know it must have been registered as taking place in Hawaii because Fukino verified that the vital records show birth in Hawaii.

Therefore, the only possible way Obama could have been born outside of Hawaii is if someone committed fraud and registered his birth to be within state.

Now here is where you, like all birthers, run into a problem. Under the law, a timely birth registration such as Obama's enjoys the presumption of accuracy. So now the burden is on you to prove that fraud took place in 1961 when the brith was registered. The burden is not on Obama to prove the birth record is correct.

Now you argue that there should be an investigation into a possible fraud, since it cannot be ruled out with complete certainty. Therefore, you argue that all of Obama's documents protected by privacy laws should be disclosed.

Here you run into another problem. You cannot just demand disclosure of something simply because you suspect fraud was committed. Before any judge will grant you disclosure, you must have some evidence lending credence to your suspcion. Otherwise you are just going on a fishing expedeition, something judges generally don't view favorablely.

Unfortuantely for you, you have no evidence even remotely suggesting a fraud took place in 1961. Even worse, you have no motive.

Now I realize you claim otherwise, so I'll take your claims appart one by one.

Your claim for motive:

Perhaps if she was aware of the procedures and was near a consulate. It would have been a lot easier to contact Granny and let her file paperwork with the Hawaii registrar.

You have got to be kidding. This is all you have for motive? I don't really feel a need to respond to that. If you think any judge, or for that matter, any reasonable person would take that seriously as a motive, then you aren't living in the real world.

As to the evidence, I say with confidence that any reasonable person would find it laughable. Let's look at your claims one by one.

Better tell that to Michelle "Kenya is my husband's home country" Obama.

Unfortunately, it is not uncommon for US-born Children of immigrants to think of their parents' country of origin as their "home country." If you think this is evidence of anything, you really need to get a grip on reality.

false certificate number,

Oh please, not this silly one. Let me guess, you think it's false because Obama's number comes after the Nordyke twins number, and yet he was born before them. Do I have that right?

Here's a question I'd like to see a birther answer. What makes you so sure birth certificate numbers always came in the same order as the births?

mismatching COLBs,

No, you have a document's scanned image whose proportions don't exactly match that of the same document's photographs. Again, this is silly, because it is well known that scanners can distort images. If you tried to bring this before a judge, you'd get laughed right out of the court room.

unconfirmed COLB,

The DOH can't confirm the authenticity of an internet image. Why you should consider this as evidence of anything is baffling.

the DOH violating its own laws to avoid disclosing legal information

As far as I can tell, it has violated no law. If you think otherwise, please specify the exact law that was violated.

197 posted on 04/21/2010 1:10:23 PM PDT by curiosity
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