Turkey taking close look at subs rejected by Greece

GeoStrategies Direct ^ | 4/16/2010 | GeoStrategies Direct

[doc1019]

From what I understand, these are conventional subs, non nuke powerplants?

[rlmorel]

"...he Type 214 was noisy and likely to tip over...."

Man, I hate that in a submarine.

[SmokingJoe]

asserted that the Type 214 was noisy and likely to tip over.

Huh? What a ridiculous thing to say about a German built submarine.

[Boiler Plate]

They are diesel/electric just like the WW2 uboats. However they are very quiet and pose problems for American Nukes.

[ErnstStavroBlofeld]

Type 214 submarine in drydock

[ErnstStavroBlofeld]

They are diesel-electric submarines

[doc1019]

Thanks for the reply. I just can’t imagine a diesel sub posing problems for a nuke. Will investigate further.

[doc1019]

Thanks, see #8

[rlmorel]

They can be very quiet running on batteries, I would expect. Diesel...not so much!

[doc1019]

They can only run on batteries for so long. If there is a nuke sub in the vicinity that even suspects another sub in the area ... they can wait for months for the apposing sub to “jump”. Just having fun with ideas ... ex destroyer sailor speaking.

[rlmorel]

Absolutely...there are two sides to that. I would take a nuclear sub ANY day of the week.

Thanks for your service...:) What did you serve on?

[Boiler Plate]

A nuke is essentially a steamship. The nuclear reactor is nothing more than a boiler that produces high pressure steam to drive steam turbines. These turbines in turn drive huge generators that power the boat including the electric drive motors. Starting and stopping a nuke reactor is a slow complicated process so they simply leave them running continuously. There many pumps for cooling the reactor and lots of machinery in the balance of plant equipment necessary to keep sub's reactor running safely. In short there is a lot of things that make a heck of racket on a nuke even when it is sitting still.

A diesel/electric can turn off every single thing that makes noise so that the loudest thing on the boat is the crew breathing.

Now imagine them lying in wait with their torpedoes in the tubes. It's over before the nuke knows the other guy is even there.

Even when the D/E is running under batteries they are like Elmer Fudd quiet. The ChiComs have already caused us plenty of embarrassment using D/Es and sneaking into our carrier groups.

WASHINGTON (Reuters) - A Chinese submarine stalked a U.S. Navy aircraft carrier battle group in the Pacific last month and was undetected until it surfaced within firing range, The Washington Times reported on Monday.

The Chinese Song-class diesel-powered attack submarine was seen within five miles of the carrier Kitty Hawk and its accompanying warships on October 26, the newspaper said, citing defense officials.

The surfaced submarine was spotted by a routine surveillance flight by one of the U.S. carrier group's planes, the report said.....

[Last Dakotan]

Huh? What a ridiculous thing to say about a German built submarine.

What do they know about submarines anyways? ...

[grey_whiskers]

"...the Type 214 was noisy and likely to tip over...."

Sell them to Guam!

[Del Rapier]

Greece wanted the yellow kind(for free) which DeutchLande didn’t have.That way they could get away from it all.

Take a cruise,let other people worry about stuff like solving their country’s problems.

[Red Dog #1]

"...Krupp..."

Funny how some names don't seem to ever go away...

[tlb]

>>> I just can’t imagine a diesel sub posing problems for a nuke. Will investigate further.

Electric boats are quieter then nuclear boats. And advancements in air filtering let them stay submerged for a couple of weeks.

A couple of years ago the USN leased a Swedish diesel electric submarine and crew to test ASW techniques. The Swedes usually “sank” the US targets.

[lentulusgracchus]

Good fetch, tks for the image.

An online story sez the S. Koreans are also buying the Kockums Type 214, having passed (interestingly) on a couple of competing offers of three low-mileage secondhand Kilo II's and newbuild French Scorpene types.

Maybe we ought to buy the Greek 214 and the Kilos for evaluation. They'd be the first pigboats in the U.S. OOB since the Albacore was retired, if memory serves.

Sometimes you don't need a Seawolf fast-attack on station; sometimes you just need a submarine.

[lentulusgracchus]

That old surfacing-Song story ..... soooo, what are the odds the group commander really didn't know he was there? Let's review.

The Song class is a quickie fill-in production run of a modestly-updated Romeo-class design that the Chinese were building under license back in the 50's and 60's. The Songs were run out after a more-modern design was deepsixed for budgetary considerations but the PLA-N needed to retire their Romeos.

And for the not-quite-up-to-speed, the Romeo design was a twin-engine version of the Whiskey class, which in turn was an ever-so-slightly Russified, quickly-built version of the captured German Type XXI design. The Zulu followed the Romeo, and was a three-engine, slightly enlarged version. Some Zulus were later modified into SSB's to carry two SS-N-4 medium-range SLBM's in an enlarged sail. Other variants followed.

I post all this to emphasize that the Song, unlike the Kilo class, was never built to pose a threat to Western assets, but as a fleet utility submarine of nearly-antique design, a definite bench player. It is in no way comparable to the Kockums and Kilo designs being produced nowadays.

If that Song didn't have a U.S. fast-attack on his skinny butt the whole time, I'll eat my hat.