Posted on 04/11/2010 12:38:37 AM PDT by ErnstStavroBlofeld
The airplane crash that killed Polish President Lech Kaczynski Saturday is deeply shocking — but, sadly, not a complete surprise. Poland has for years been calling the Soviet-era military aircraft used by Polish officials “flying coffins.”
Poland’s former Prime Minister Leszek Miller once had to leave the government airplane at an airport in Germany after an engine caught on fire. He was later nearly killed in a helicopter crash — and still politicians were too afraid of the public reaction to buy new aircraft.
The possibility of a government aircraft crashing and killing an important official was so strongly discussed that it became absorbed into popular culture. Commercial television broadcaster Polsat produced a series called Ekipa in 2007 in which a fictitious president crashes in a helicopter and dies shortly afterward.
A flying coffin” is a somewhat unfair description, however, when it comes to the Tupolev Tu-154 airplane that crashed Saturday. As our colleagues explain here, the 20-year-old airplane had recently been overhauled.
I took that airplane once when traveling with Prime Minister Donald Tusk to cover his first visit to Moscow as the head of government, and I sent our reporters many times with Mr. Kaczynski as he traveled on that airplane to the former Soviet republics and to the U.S.
I admit the reputation of that airplane preceded it so much that my family tried to discourage me from boarding it. But inside, it looked just like any other airliner. It was louder than normal, but, frankly, after landing in Moscow I started thinking the safety concerns were overblown.
(Excerpt) Read more at blogs.wsj.com ...
They really are crappy planes, as is most Soviet technology.
We learned after the Cold War and the Gulf War just how much more far advanced we were than USSR.
But it still seems like pilot error caused this crash, not the aircraft.
I get the same impression that it was pilot error but these planes are still flying death traps.
may GOD grant the victims of this tragedy eternal rest and peace
According to the BBC and aviation expert Paul Duffy the Tu-154 has an average safety record for its type and length of service especially considering its heavy use in the most demanding conditions often with poor air traffic control; of the 28 aircraft lost to accident few appear to have been due to technical failure.
From Wiki
Pilot error. Don’ think so.
I guess the data recorders will have to give us a clue.
Only if it shows a conversation taking place between pilot and ATC.
Otherwise the fact that ATC said it was monitoring the glide path of the aircraft and they said they relayed the info but the pilots didn’t respond .... Who can say it was pilot error?
I find it odd that the plane was hitting tree tops that stood 8 meters tall 1200 meters out from the runway.
ATC stated 1.5 km out they notified the plane its glide slope was off.
Now when you take the time to being notified you glide path is off at 1.5 km to 1.2 km out you are hitting tree tops at 8 meters, this tells me someone in the tower was either having a few drinks of vodka or had another motive.
This one was definately not pilot error.
Should have bought a Boeing.
If it aint Boeing, I aint going.
Do they even have them?
This is a true blow to the Polish people. And the Russians are looking into it. Most likely to figure why it took so long.
The pilot error may have been following the tower’s instructions.
I wonder why they were so concerned with landing at this particular airport in a dense fog in the first place. It
seems to me they had enough time to divert to another airport (at least temporarily) and still be able to attend this memorial event later in the day.
Any aircraft is a ‘flying coffin’ when there’s an idiot making his fourth missed approach to a closed airfield in below minimums fog conditions.
I once flew in one of these, and was uneasy for the whole flight: air could be felt coming through the side of the plane! The thing rattled all the way.
Is there anything the Russians make which is well put together, except maybe an AK-47? Even that is good design, but poor precision.
Of course, the pilot should have turned back because of the bad weather. If there is a cultural factor at play, it may be the tendency of Poles to act heroically – very admirable in some contexts, but not good for safety records.
Your comments make it sound as if the aircraft was landing with PAR (Precision Approach Radar), ground based radar that is used to provide guidance both in direction to the runway and in descent along a glidepath. I am a retired USAF air traffic controller and have worked thousands of these approaches, some down to weather as low as 100’ ceiling and 1/4 mile visibility. In this case, I would like to know what the ceiling and visibility was and what type of approach the aircraft was on.
Planes, by their nature, require tons of consistent (and expensive) maintenance. I've flown on some 747s owned by shoddy carriers that flew like the soviet plane you describe.
The design intent of Russian planes is usually less required maintenance and longer lasting core parts at the cost of nearly everything else. I can practically guarantee that they have the lowest rates of catastrophic technical failure per maintenance hour/dollar.
In other words, there is a very good chance that the plane will rattle like a tincan, a window may leak or the A/C will go out but falling out of the sky and losing the entire plane is very rare. Even if neglected and the wrong parts are used.
Is there anything the Russians make which is well put together, except maybe an AK-47? Even that is good design, but poor precision.
Yes, I'd say every single soviet item that I brought here is still functioning 20 years later, assuming I didn't do something stupid to break it. I used a 30 year old soviet drill last night.
The design intent of the AK was to shoot at all costs with the worst ammo and cost nearly nothing to produce.
Russian engineering and manufacturing is capable of greatness but has always been hurt by communism (and now corruption/crime). Nearly every guy I know from there is an engineer, builder and mechanic rolled into one (at varying levels of skill). Nearly everyone learned technical skills and there was no such thing as a "liberal arts" education there.
Surprising to many, most Russians have conservative "bootstrap" values and know not to depend on the government at all. The government and socialism is literally seen as a joke by all Russians. I.e "The government isn't fixing our roads or providing clean water? Old news. We'll patch our own roads and collect our own water."
People here assume the government is still "here to help" and complain because so many taxes are collected. They still haven't learned what happens when the government is stretched thin and has no more citizens remaining to "tax"...
This is certainly not the time for "Polish Jokes," but a certain question immediately arises :
Why would any country put so many of their national leaders on a single aircraft?
Sounds... well, less than prudent.
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