AP EXCLUSIVE: Future pope stalled pedophile case (California priest was eventually defrocked)

AP on Yahoo ^ | 4/9/10 | Gillian Flaccus - ap

[NormsRevenge]

LOS ANGELES – The future Pope Benedict XVI resisted pleas to defrock a California priest with a record of sexually molesting children, citing concerns including "the good of the universal church," according to a 1985 letter bearing his signature.

The correspondence, obtained by The Associated Press, is the strongest challenge yet to the Vatican's insistence that Benedict played no role in blocking the removal of pedophile priests during his years as head of the Catholic Church's doctrinal watchdog office.

The letter, signed by then-Cardinal Joseph Ratzinger, was typed in Latin and is part of years of correspondence between the Diocese of Oakland and the Vatican about the proposed defrocking of the Rev. Stephen Kiesle.

The Vatican refused to comment on the contents of the letter Friday, but a spokesman confirmed it bore Ratzinger's signature.

[Cardhu]

Where are the leaders of other churches?

Thank you Doc - most likely professional courtesy.

But I do understand that a leader speaks for his flock and they well know the make up of their flock. He would speak for many but would alienate many more.

[Cardhu]

Yes what every you say - impossible in 1981 but magically possible in 1987.

You do know that Pope Pius XII was palling around with Hitler - in fact he was know as Hitler´s Pope are you saying that he would palled around with Hitchens too.

The Pope is visiting Malta next Sunday. Now Malta is 98% catholic there is not a place on earth that has such a concentration of really active Catholics. But this is what will greet him if thy do not clean it up:

And did you also know that the Vatican City is a state because of the treaty signed in 1929 with Mussolini who gave the church 109 acres and Castel Gondolfo .

Better be careful banding dictators names around for your enemies.

[caww]

Protection of this man is what enrages people....and more victums followed ...it is beyond appauling and should have been handled by the authorities..not the church. It is sickening.

"He admitted molesting many children and bragged that he was the Pied Piper and said he tried to molest every child that sat on his lap," said Lewis VanBlois, an attorney for six Kiesle victims who interviewed the former priest in prison. "When asked how many children he had molested over the years, he said 'tons.'"

[caww]

My problem with what you are saying is this....if our Pres. can call a police officer who supposedl called another a bad name, to the white house for a chit chat, and he is in charge of an entire country, then there is no reason why the vatican leadership could not have handled this ASP..and to have known of this within the church he presides over.

[NormsRevenge]

It is a sad affair all around, both for the victims and the Church... for the perps, let ‘em rotate slowly over an open pit.. or somethin’ folks can agree on.

It is not uncommon for ‘good’ or perceived as so do bad things... and that goes across the religious prism or pretty close to it, imo.

Now we have recent US swimming scandals&allegations involving a lot of coaches, who move from locale to locale, sound familiar, to add to the fire.

If your kid isn’t safe at a church, a school, a pool, I guess that’s a good reason to home school .. or CCW

[RobbyS]

Palling around with Hitler? I suggest you get familiar with the history of the Third Reich. The Church made a concordat with the Hitler government, trying to get along with Hitler by agreeing, for one thing, to accept the abolition of the Center Party. The agreement lasted about as long as other agreements made by Hitler. It was mad to protect Catholic education in Germany, and within two years he Nazis were busy taking over education as they did every institution. All kids were forced into Nazi programs. When priests and others protested, they were locked up. Then they started to take over Catholic publications, and to discredit the priesthood by accusing them the way your friend is, of sexual crimes. Yeah, real pals, the Nazis were.

[Cardhu]

I lived through those times and there is much more than that in the Pope collaboration with the Axis powers with his supported Mussolini's invasions of Abyssinia Somaliland and later Albania - but it was simply an illustration that throwing the names of dictators like Hitler, Mussolini and Franco, which were all fully supported by the Pope at that time in relation to the Catholic church is not such a bright idea.

Strangely enough I was in Somaliland when the UN at Lake Success handed it back to the Italians. Big time riots.

[Quix]

WOW.

Just wow.

[RobbyS]

Comparison of Mussolini’s Italy/Franco’s Spain with Hitler’s Germany is like comparing a “ Coreleone “ with an SS thug. There’s a qualitative leap. Mussolini, as you know, was much admired in the the USA and in Europe. The Western Powers were unwise enough to enlist Mussolini as an honest-broker. And he was the “protector” of Austria until he decided to enter into a partnership with Hitler, seeing Germany as the strong horse. As of September, 1940, he had bet on a winner. The Axis Powers were on the top of the heap.

[caww]

Wasn't there some sort of program in the Catholic church to consider internal offenses and limit access to kids from convicted pedophiles?

It would appear not, or if there was then that again only adds to the failures of the church investigation to rightly handle this mans criminal history. It should have been handed over to the authorities, for every child that was molested, AFTER they knew of these offenses, was not only a victim of his but the church leadership as well and should be as accountable as if they themselves committed the acts.

[caww]

......"Why did one hundred and eleven (111) heads of dioceses including eight (8) cardinals in forty (40) states all decide that they should just cover up the scandal independently?".......

For the same reason our political administration pushed thru a bill nobody wanted.....money and the political fallout or gain by doing this...on backs of the american people. Never was about the people...no more than going after this man was about the children............... Power and corruption all the way to the top!

[Cardhu]

Thanks Quix - It just so shocks me that in all this the victims are not even mentioned. It seems that the children are the predators and the pompous men in the Palaces are the poor victims.

Conservatives, personal responsibility, what a sick joke.

[Cardhu]

It was not a comparison it was a gentle reminder that throwing dictators names to slander your enemies when defending the Pope is unwise.

Catholic Spain has become a place with the lowest number of practicing catholics probably in Europe because the church allied themselves with Franco against the people. No one could get a job unless the priest certified that you were a catholic in good standing. The day Franco died the corrupt church died with him.

No matter how beloved Mussolini was by the US or the Vatican the Italians peopñe hung him upside down from a lampost the end of the war.

The Catholic Church has always sided with the powerful to survive that is the only important article of faith tha matters — all the rest is window dressing for the rubes.

[Cardhu]

Quoting atheists says a whole lot.

Just more from the useful idiots to further the atheistic progressive agenda.

As the God of a believer is usually a reflection of himself I would be intrigued examine the qualities of your God.

On the other hand, the more I think about it the more absurd it becomes.

[big'ol_freeper]

RE: “On the other hand, the more I think about it the more absurd it becomes.”

God is not absurd. Deep-seeded hatred of His Son’s Church is though.

[Quix]

Tooooooo true, imho.

Thx.

[Mrs. Don-o]

I'm going to make this comment quickly (because I'm out the door in about 2 minutes) but then come back to it tomorrow: I don't know why you (or others) are so cluelessly going after this red herring of "defrocking," except it seems to me that you don't know what "defrocking" is.

In short: in terms of child-protection, "defrocking" is completely irrelevant. What people seem to mean by the term is that the priest must not be relieved of any priestly assignment, must not be allowed to exercise priestly faculties, and must ---if he is credibly accused of crime--- we reported to authorities.

Now listen up. All of this is done by the diocesan bishop. Not by the Pope. That's as of "then" (whenever "then" may be in these cases: 10, 20, 30, 40 years ago) and as of now.

And that's what most people think they mean by "defrocking."

Actually "defrocking" is not a canonical term at all. Any additional steps of laicization, would accomplish this:

Removal of the priest from his vows of obedience to the Bishop (resulting in even less supervision); and release from the obligation of celibacy: which would allow him to marry.

"Defrocking" is a term that should not be used because it is a sloppy journalistic term that actually has no equivalent in the Catholic Church.

The relevant child-protective measures (relieving the priest of all assignments; suspending his faculties; calling the cops) is ALL DONE AT THE LOCAL LEVEL.

What remains for Rome to do, is, as far as public impact goes, irrelevant, a technicality.

Do you get that?

And men who have actually been laicized, AND MARRIED, have gone on to abuse kids while laicized and married. As I think you know.

Goodbye for now. I'll check in tomorrow.

[RobbyS]

Anti-clericalism has been in vogue since the time of Carlos III(sp), a an enlightened despot, and very effective ruler. Under his auspices, California was settled and many governmental reforms instituted. Gave Mexico probably its last decent government ;-) During the 19th and twentieth centuries, power has moved back and forth between the clericals and the anti-clerical. Unlike in England where infidelity takes the form of of a moralistic agnosticism, Latin “republicanism” is basically Jacobin in character, and takes a postivistic view of Christianity. As for Franco, don’t forget that was one savage civil war, one that wrecked the country in the way that the Vietnam war wrecked that one. Give Franco credit: he was one smart cookie who knew enough to stay out of the war. One story has it that he saw better than Mussolini—his real patron—what sort of thing Nazism was. And he had a Jewish grandmother. Spain was also fortunate in that Prince Juan Carlos was greatly underestimated by Franco. So the prince allowed himself to be manipulated but at the same time had his own plans for the future.

[RobbyS]

Get this straight. The pope is the head of the Catholic Church which includes about a billion people, and is a few thousand of the 400-600,000 priests and nuns. Furthermore, since the 1970s, laymen have taken over most of the positions in parishes and diocesan offices and chanceries. In terms of “running the church on a day to day basis, lay people have the leading roles. Furthermore, it is not a simple pyramid organization. It is a “federation” of sort not only with thousands of dioceses but hundred of religious orders who are only generally under the authority of the Vatican “departments.” Many priests in the parishes of a diocese are members of religious order and they are directly under their “superior” In matters involving these people, the diocese must work with the order. It is a bit like having an Air Force officer working on an Army base. A general is still above an lieutenant, but the general may have to work with another general. The head of a religious order being pretty much the equal of a bishop. Since Vatican II, as a general matter, “religious” priests are more liberal than “secular” priests (who work for the bishop. The Jesuits are VERY liberal and it has been many since the popes could depend on them.

[caww]

Your explanation makes it seem as though the catholic organization is “too big to fail”?... Really, it's more like our government with too many bosses and neither the right or the left hand knows what they are doing or better said, what is being done to the “sheep” they are required before God to oversee.

You can bet if a General in our services learned of a serious crime in the ranks it would be addressed and dealt with once found out. Abu G. comes to mind...

At any rate, people within the chain of command within the catholic church did more than drop the ball, they dug a hole and covered it up... But I do understand the people wanting to protect the pope, as well as those under him in authority. The fallout, if he did know, would be devastating to the catholic church especially financially as the costs for suits etc. already have cost them greatly....money which could have been used for the poor etc..... wonder if these pedophiles ever took that into account while doing their criminal deed? Let alone the impact on families the children and the whole of those within the church as well as without.