Posted on 03/31/2010 9:12:29 AM PDT by Dallas59
March 30 (Bloomberg) -- Historians cite the late second century as the turning point of the Roman Empire, when the once- proud, feared society began its descent into infamy.
As the ruling class was undermined by civil wars and attacks by outsiders, the Romans’ respect for law and social institutions began to erode. In the end, a combination of political and economic mistakes led to the empire’s downfall.
The U.S. today is a mirror image of the Roman Empire as it tipped into chaos. Whether we blame our bloated government, a greedy elite or a lethargic population, the similarities between the two foreshadow a gruesome future.
The Roman economy grew fat from the plunder of conquered territories and the added productivity offered by new lands. The waning of expansionism didn’t bode well for the empire.
(Excerpt) Read more at businessweek.com ...
it started much earlier
with a generation akin to the boomers
in the first c. b.c.
who defied traditional values.
Another thing that killed the Roman Empire was that they began to rely on others to do their work for them to the point that they couldn’t do anything. Romans also began to rely on the government to even feed them. It became their form of welfare. It destroyed them totally.
While this article correctly talks about Romans developing a sense of entitlement which is eerily similar to the U.S. today - they left out that in order to fund these entitlements the Romans taxed their middle class out of existence. Literally. That was the real beginning of the end. Much like we are on a path to doing if we don’t take our govt back.
I’m totally nonplussed by attempts to
1 Summarize the “real reasons” Rome declined and fell.
2 Compare Rome’s decline to America or anything else.
The roman empire lasted way too long, covered way too much territory, and “declined” during way too many eras ro be nutshelled in this way.
There are many many valuable lessons to be learned, but articles that say they were “just like” our situation and that “the Romans” became this way or that are preposterously simplistic.
To say more I’d have to write a book, it’s just not that simple.
“Whether we blame our bloated government, a greedy elite or a lethargic population ...”
Check, check, and check.
Barack Obama isn’t the problem, he’s the symptom.
“Another thing that killed the Roman Empire was that they began to rely on others to do their work for them to the point that they couldn’t do anything. Romans also began to rely on the government to even feed them. It became their form of welfare. It destroyed them totally.”
Oh, kind of like offshore outsourcing, and illegal immigrants?
The healthcare bill is the first step toward a total nanny state.
Looks like we have the elements of demise covered.
I thought Rome was pretty infamous from at least the time of Caligula, when by all accounts the empire was still on its way up.
“demise covered” Yeah, we learn real well don’t we? I keep waiting for this country to stand up. Hope it comes soon. Everything here in this country belongs to us, not the government.
“In the fifth century, the Roman political elite began searching for ways to distract its population from the hopelessness at hand. Bread and circuses postponed the ultimate fall. The tactic stopped working when people realized their bread tasted stale and sensed the true scope of the impending disaster.”
If you think this is intelligent historical comment, that people realized their free bred “tasted stale” please read some books.
As to Romans “sensing the true scoipe of the impending disaster” beside the fact there were countless disasters and triumphs spread over centuries, a very good case can and has been made that the Romans didn’t recognize impending disaster.
Rome is still there today by the way, and as the empire declined the populace many many times thought they were saved and back on top. This mistaken view existed even long after the various dates when most would say the empire already had fallen. Many Romans continued to delude themselves.
Nothing lasts forever.
I think you're right.
Are we at the point where Rome no longer was a Republic ie) @44 BC? Or are we at the point, centuries later, where Rome was ruled by a corrupt elite, the currency was debased (By the time of Claudius II Gothicus (268-270 A.D.) the amount of silver in a supposedly (100%) silver denarius was only .02%) and “free” Romans had to become slaves and feudal serfs because of their debts.
The use of the word “infamy” here is just poor word choice by the non historian author. The empire produced many incredible heroes over many centuries, enlightened despots as well as tyrants, great generals including the one who defeated Attila with combined Roman/Germanic armies.
There is an incredible difference between Rome/America because Rome was for hundreds of years an absolute imperial dictatorship.
Plus there are so many relevant historical examples besides Rome, it’s just tired to dredge up the “oh we’re just like the Romans”. We’re not.
In ancient rome leaders had minions whispering in their ears phrases like ‘Sic transit gloria mundi’ (Thus passes the glory of the world) and ‘Respice post te! Hominem te memento!’ (Look behind you! Remember that you are but a man!).
Leaders now have minions whispering in their ears ‘This is a big f-—ing deal!’
(any good cartoonists or photoshoppers here?)
Gibbon figured it was a hundred years later and I'm going with him. Really, this is reasoning by a very weak analogy. The U.S. is not Rome in any sense that holds up under scrutiny.
That does not mean that there aren't similarities, especially in terms of folly. One thing that stands out was the opening up of the previously hard-earned Roman citizenship to practically everyone in the Empire during the third century AD. Even this is a fairly weak likeness: these weren't voters, and it wasn't to keep the reigning party in power, but the broad idea is quite suggestive of immigration "reform" today.
All empires fall when inner strengths cannot overcome outside pressures. One may eliminate or lessen the outside pressure through foreign policy - that was one object of Bush's nation-building in Iraq. One may strengthen the inner resources of the host nation. When, as the current administration seems to be accomplishing, both outside pressures are increased through ineffective foreign policy and the inner nation is fractured by faction, it isn't good news whether you're Athens, Parthia, Rome, Persia, Mongolia, Turkey, Egypt, or Timbuktu.
“Yeah, we learn real well don’t we? I keep waiting for this country to stand up. “
Don’t count on it. I live in the blue part of Ohio, and the majority of people here are ready for the nanny state.
And don’t get me started on the lack of education and motivation in the kids!
not to be argumentative, but the Romans didn’t have much of anything that resembled our “middle” class except perhaps their “merchant” class and their retired soldier class, (which was indeed fairly sizeable).
Bad analysis.
The western empire was done in by the repeated plagues that wiped out the most important unit in their economy, the slaves who did all the work.
Naw.
All the quotes ref’d in my tagline
http://www.freerepublic.com/focus/religion/2130557/posts?page=81#81
are just incoherent rambling fantasies of drunken elites of the last 110 years.
There’s nothing here. Move along.
The Republic is in fine hands.
Things are going wonderfully.
The economy is bursting with benefits.
Soon there’ll be a chicken in every pot and a health care gestapo in every driveway—what joy to anticipate.
All the faithful, loyal, patriotic citizens so eagerly trundling wheel barrow loads of cash to the government will be blessed to know that 5 illegal immigrants are eagerly chomping at the bit for their jobs.
It’s a wonderful New World Ordered for OThuga and his cronies. What could possibly be amiss. Rejoice citizens!
/s
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