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Stay in your little fantasy world and don’t look out because things are getting worse instead of better.

And screw you and your idiotic notion that you have some moral standing to judge anyone else’s ideals. You clearly don’t.

And you are very foolish if you think that even a sizable majority of any society is going to open savings accounts and provide for their future retirement. News item: many people don’t earn enough to live and save any significant amount, and the good paying jobs just aren’t around for everyone. Another fantasy of yours, and yes in a nation the size of the USA, there’d be millions of elderly with no income or means of support if there were no program.

And I’m well aware of other strains of socialism, but they have really just evolved and been named after the fact, and they still are not real, basic socialism where government owns the means of production and there is no private property. We could also Fabian capitalism, or all sorts of hybrids with all sorts of names.

In your point #4, yep, if Republicans started talking about eliminating SS and and the safety net, you’d better believe many would turn around today and head back toward Obama. Many opposing Obama today are doing so because of his cuts in Medicare to prop up his new Obamacare programs.

You’re just one more purist out of touch with the reality of what is possible in the real world, and what is simply fantasy. I think we should have a basic safety net for working citizens, and a basic SS and medicare system, and some reforms will have to be made as most everyone knows. We won’t ever be much leaner than that, and will be lucky if we can hold it there.

Look, I’ve lost my patience with you, Sir! Your entire argument is that I “live ina fantasy world,” because I don’t agree with you, and amazingly you live in the fantasy world that pretends “Social Security is fine” despite having an unfunded liability of $13 trillion, having a shortfall of $29 billion this year, and facing a crushing tsunami of 80 million baby boomers. You’ve never rebutted, and in many cases skipped over, my arguments against Social Security including the constitutionality of it and you’ve defied reason itself by ignoring my repeated alternative to the government “mandated retirement,” which is simply opening a savings account and retiring a millionaire. You’ve held up your nose to the proposition that people, not the Government, are responsible for their retirement. Like my argument about alternative types of saving and investing as opposed to Government mandated retirement, there are genuine altruistic and civic ways of helping those in need. This is the very reason I concluded you have corrupted ideals and this persistent intellectual dishonesty is not going to win you the debate. I will judge you, by your very words and course throughout the debate. That’s Merit 101!

Yes, I must be foolish to believe that people could actually open up a savings account, put in less than the Government would take for Social Security, and use the power of compound interest to have a better retirement than they could through the Government while maintaining absolute control and responsibility of their money and drawing their money at the age they decide. How foolish of me to think Americans, or a majority of them, would be responsible and behave like grownup adults! The only thing your argument can use is that Americans are upside with credit cards, mortgages, car & loans, and so forth. Of course, you don’t have to live within your means, or responsibly budget your household, because we have a Government ready to provide your every need and bailout any failure. Hey, just look at what government-run schools are turning out and looking at the performance of America in an area like education and you’ll see just why that is. As for the “millions dying in the streets,” those are just the product of lazy, fear mongering minds that refuse to consider individuals taking responsibility for their lives and communities or simply, in this case, their retirement.

As for the types of Socialism, you completely evade my entire point and again miss the fact that Fabian Socialism was founded in the late 1800s in Great Britain, rejecting Marx’s call for revolution instead relying on a Roman general’s strategy for defeating Hannibal, which was avoiding major clashes and gradually wearing down resistance. Fabian Socialism was the basis for the Great Society programs enacted by Lyndon Johnson. It is ludicrous for you to suggest there is a “Fabian” capitalism. That’s fantasy. That doesn’t exist. That’s another relativistic view point, but you are proving to be quite post-modern aren’t you?

As for my point #4, you made a false claim about what I said in response to your assertion that eliminating Social Security would drive people to the Democrats. At this time, with government-run schools, colleges, universities, media, and so forth – absolutely. Not to mention corrupted conservatives like yourself that not only fail to articulate or think about the need to dismantle it, you openly support it and propagandize for it. The consequence is freedom and truth. You think you’re winning, but actually you are gradually losing more and more to the other side while co-opting more of their agenda. Actually, cuts in Medicare are a good thing. That program alone has 85.6 Trillion in debt. That’s not why I’m opposed to Obama’s health care bill either.

Furthermore, I’m very in touch with reality. I understand the political reality. You’re problem seems to be that I’m on operating on a sound, principled basis as opposed to a corrupted or incoherent foundation. You can play the Republican vs. Democrat game and cheer on your favorite team, but I have a broader view coupled with strong convictions. I don’t choose to ignore the reality of our unfunded liabilities and the unsustainable welfare state we have today. Perhaps you should look at my thread on 2009 index on dependency. When you decide to lie, or ignore, you are part of the very reason why will never hope for more than mediocre “reform,” but I regret to inform you that the unfunded liabilities have enough debt to destroy this nation.