ObamaCare's Worst Tax Hike

wsj ^ | 3/17/10 | staff

[Nachum]

The forced march to pass ObamaCare continues, and all that matters now is raw politics. But opponents should go down swinging, and that means exposing such policy debacles as President Obama's 11th-hour decision to apply the 2.9% Medicare payroll tax to "unearned income."

That's what savings and investment income are called in Washington, and this destructive tax wasn't in either the House or Senate bills, though it may now become law with almost no scrutiny.

[RC2]

Of course at the same time he will pay back Social Security the $2.4 Trillion that the government owes them ......right?

[farlander]

There’s no such thing as “unearned income” in real life just as there is no free lunch. In order to have investment and/or savings income you’d have had to have earned the money to invest. But this is besides the point.

[Nachum]

All this will do is chase money away from traditional investments and ulitmately into offshore investing or the black market.

[USNA74]

So would this mean that all the pass-thru income that comes on Schedule K-1 for S Corps will now be hit with this 2.9% tax?? That’ll just kill small businesses.

[glide625]

They are gonna run a lot of people, businesses and money out of the U.S. Heard today from my boss that another company we do business with is relocating their headquarters offshore; they are following the example of Haliburton, Noble Drilling, etc.

[HwyChile]

“There’s no such thing as “unearned income””.

You are wrong because you are applying a layman's definition instead of using the correct tax definition. Words often have different meanings depending on their application, especially when dealing with laws. We have never taxed dividends, interest, etc. as “earned income” because those items are “investment income”. If Joe Blow works for General Motors and also owns stock in GM, he pays medicare tax on his wages that he receives from GM, but not on the dividends on the stock.

Obama and the democrats are true “tax and spend” liberals, so this should not surprise anyone.

[HwyChile]

“So would this mean that all the pass-thru income that comes on Schedule K-1 for S Corps will now be hit with this 2.9% tax??”

Yes, and the same for limited partnership distributions to limtied partners. In fact, it gets worse than that. It applies even if you own stock in a big corporation or your retirement account owns it. At the end of the day, it is a tax increase on a lot of people, and not just “rich people”.

[OldGoatCPO]

You are absolutely correct. the black market will boom. If this passes, I am going to look into off shore insurance. There are excellent hospitals in China, India and the Philippines. That is not even looking at what is available in Singapore or what will be built in places like Costa Rico or other countries. A friend went to Columbia for Lasiks, spent 2.5 grand for both eyes. My son had major reconstructive knee surgery in China, with two days in the hospital, $2000.00! The problem is that you had to have someone bring you food and drinks and there is no such thing as privacy. But the care and post-op care was excellent. There will be a black market in everything, gold will sky rocket as people avoid savings accounts and look for ways to hide savings. These idiots in DC think we really want this and will go along like the sheep they think we are. I am a tail end baby boomer, the Hussein Administration will impact me as I will need health care and savings just when the whole shebang collapses.

[PogySailor]

So now he’s just adding parts to the “bill” and the “deem” it passed? Can we call him a dictator yet?

[Nachum]

If this passes, I am going to look into off shore insurance. There are excellent hospitals in China, India and the Philippines

You know, I sell insurance and was just talking about selling international plans yesterday. I was trying to figure out how to market it but I have a feeling it will not be too hard. The plans are always after me to market them. I also have a medivac "club" that will take you to any hospital in the world and pay 100% of the cost in an emergency. I was thinking of offering them both together. The legislation might kill my existing business, but new opportunities may open up as a result.

Yep. I am watching this all very closely indeed.

[HwyChile]

The democrats will shut down any attempt to do an end run around their health care plan. You will have to pay for it out of your taxes, and you will not be allowed to pay extra for any health care that you want. You will go through the same soup line as the homeless to have “equal” health care. That is their goal I shit you not.

[Nachum]

You will go through the same soup line as the homeless to have “equal” health care.

That's why medical tourism would grow. Those that can afford it will get it. Doctors will travel to places to perform it.

[mojitojoe]

WHAT????!!!??? So we would now get taxed on the K-1 and pay again on our personal? I’m confused.

[farlander]

I was discussing this in a phylosophical context, not tax-code context, in other words, I objected at the term being used as any money made is money earned. :)

Not a right/wrong type of thing at all. I’m very much aware of the tax specifics.

[HwyChile]

There are two taxes involved with S corporations: (1)federal income tax and (2) self-employment tax (which has the social security tax, medicare, etc.).

If you own S corporation stock but do not work in the business, then you only pay federal income tax on the profits that flow through to you.

If you own S corporation stock but also work in the S corporation as an employee, then you pay federal income tax on the profits that flow through to you and that you receive as compensation as an employee (w-2 wages). You are also taxed with self-employment tax on the portion that you receive as w-2 wages for working in the business. Note that you have to pay yourself “reasonable compensation” for working in your own S corporation, and thus you will be hit with some self-employment tax.

The new law would tax with self-employment tax the profits that flow through to you for owning the stock.

In other words, just like the guy who works at GM and also owns GM stock, you only get taxed on the self-employment tax for working for your company as an employee—not the amount you receive for owning the stock in the S corporation.

[HwyChile]

The theory behind the tax distinction is that the medicare, social security, etc. taxes only apply to employee income. That was what it was sold as when enacted. It is a tax on employment wages. When you own stock, that is an investment and not employment income. Definitions matter a lot in law, and they mean different things depending on different laws.

[HwyChile]

By the way, when you own a flow though entity or are a sole proprietor (no entity), the tax is called “self-employment” tax. When you work as an employee or own a C corporation but also work in the C corporation, it is called the payroll tax. They are really the same underlying taxes (i.e. social security, medicaid, etc.), but they are collected in a slightly different way.

[GailA]

Defeat Obamacare call list: List now contains the new MAYBES culled from FR posts. Be sure to call KNOWN RINOS too.THEY ARE ANSWERING THEIR LOCAL NUMBERS

Here is one of the ones Rush gave out on the radio that I’m calling. So far it’s been busy but I’m going to burn it up till I get to tell my congress critter to vote NO!
Join me?..... 1-877-762-8762

KEEP THE CALLS UP! DC OFFICE LOCAL OFFICE
Code Red” - House Target List on Health Care
The National Republican Congressional Committee has published a target list on health care. In addition to continuing to contact the five Tennessee Democrat Congressmen, you can go http://www.votervoice.net/link/clickthrough/ext/94697.aspx to contact some of these targets. Much of the talk following Obama’s announcement has focused on how to defeat this second bill through reconciliation, but that is misleading because the first step to defeating Obamacare is not by concentrating on defeating the “fixer” bill but by defeating the Senate bill in the House when it goes to the floor for an up-or-down vote on Thursday, March 18th.

New FLIPPERS
Dennis Kucinish, Lakewood 216)228-8850, Fax (216)228-6465,
Parma. 440)845-2707, Fax (440)845-2743, DC (202)225-5871
Fax (202)225-5745
James Oberstar (202) 225-6211, Duluth (218) 727-7474, Chisholm (218) 254-5761, Brainerd (218) 828-4400, North Branch, (651) 277-1234

Rep. Lincoln Davis 202-225-6831 Columbia office: 931-490-8699
Rep. Jim Cooper 202-225-4311 Nashville office: 615-736-5295
Rep. Bart Gordon 202-225-4231 Murfreesboro office: 615-896-1986
John Tanner (202) 225-4714, Union City, (731) 885-7070, Jackson Phone: (731) 423-4848, Millington (901) 873-5690 TN (MAYBE)
Rep. Steve Cohen 202-225-3265 Memphis office: 901-544-4131
Harry Mitchell (202) 225-2190 (480) 946-2411 AZ 5th District
Gabrielle Giffords (202) 225-2542 (520) 881-3588 AZ 8th District
Ann Kirkpatrick (202) 225-2315 (928) 226-6914 AZ 1st District
Jerry McNerney (202) 225-1947 925-833-0643 CA 11th District
John Salazar 202-225-4761 970-245-7107 CO 3rd District
Jim Himes (202) 225-5541 (866) 453-0028 CT 4th District
Alan Grayson (202) 225-2176 (407) 841-1757 FL 8th District
Bill Foster (202) 225-2976 630-406-1114 IL 14th District
Baron Hill 202 225 5315 812 288 3999 IN 9th District
Mark Schauer (202) 225-6276 (517) 780-9075 MI 7th District
Gary Peters (202) 225-5802 (248) 273-4227 MI 9th District
Dina Titus (202) 225-3252 702-256-DINA (3462) NV 3rd District
Carol Shea-Porter (202) 225-5456 (603) 743-4813 NH 1st District
Tim Bishop (202) 225-3826 (631) 696-6500 NY 1st District
John Hall (202) 225-5441 (845) 225-3641 x49371 NY 19th District
Bill Owens (202) 225-4611 (315) 782-3150 NY 23rd District
James Matheson Toll-Free Number 1 (877) 677-9743 (202) 225-3011Mike Arcuri (202)225-3665 (315)793-8146 NY 24th District
Dan Maffei (202) 225-3701 (315) 423-5657 NY 25th District
Earl Pomeroy (202) 225-2611 (701) 224-0355 ND At-Large District
Steven Driehaus (202) 225-2216 (513) 684-2723 OH 1st District
Mary Jo Kilroy (202) 225-2015 (614) 294-2196 OH 15th District
Zach Space (202) 225-6265 (330) 364-4300 OH 18th District
Kathy Dahlkemper (202) 225-5406 (814) 456-2038 PA 3rd District
Patrick Murphy (202) 225-4276 (215) 826-1963 PA 8th District
Christopher Carney (202) 225-3731 (570) 585-9988 PA 10th District
Paul Kanjorski (202) 225-6511 (570) 825-2200 PA 11th District
John Spratt (202) 225-5501 (803)327-1114 SC 5th District
Tom Perriello (202) 225-4711 (276) 656-2291 VA 5th District
Alan Mollohan (202) 225-4172 (304) 623-4422 WVA 1st District
Nick Rahall (202) 225-3452 (304) 252-5000 WVA 3rd District
Steve Kagen (202) 225-5665 (920) 437-1954 WI 8th District
Bart Stupak (202) 225 4735 MI (MAYBE)
Brian Baird (202) 225-3536, Vancouver, (360) 695-6292. Olympia, (360) 352-9768, (MAYBE)
senator mark begich (202) 224-3004 toll free. (877) 501 - 6275 just became a MAYBE
Jason Altmire 202-225-2565, Aliquippa, 724-378-0928,
Natrona Heights, 724-226-1304 (MAYBE)
On the Bubble (Major developments from the “yes” and “no” columns in the House)
http://www.freerepublic.com/focus/news/2467046/posts

Congressional Dems on Twitter
http://www.arrghpaine.com/congressional-dems-on-twitter
And here are toll-free numbers we can use to call any Senators or Reps.

At the first number below you must wait through a tape recording urging you to tell your Rep or Senator to vote “yes” for the health care bill. Just hang on and when the recording is over, you will get the Capitol operator. Just ask for your Rep or Senator’s office. Then you will either talk to an aid or have the chance to leave a message for him/her to vote NO on the health care bill.

When you use the second number and the Capitol operator comes on, just ask for your Rep or Senator’s office. Every time I use this number I get the Rep or Senator’s answer machine, so it may be set up that way all the time...to go to their answer machine. Either way you can leave a message to vote NO on the health care bill!

We need to use these toll free numbers that have been set up for the health care/ BO supporters and illegals to use! After all they are FREE!

1-800-828-0498 , 1-866-220-0044, 1-866-338-1015, 877-851-6437, 877-210-5351

[NTHockey]

So they are not really passing the Senate bill. They are ramming something that is something different. Ergo, it cannot be reconciled; it must be considered as a new bill.