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Budget Wars Spell Grim Future For F-22 Raptor and F-35 Lightning II Planes
Popular Mechanics ^ | March 4, 2010 | Joe Pappalardo

Posted on 03/17/2010 4:08:34 AM PDT by EnjoyingLife

There could be some bad news on the horizon for the F-35 Lightning II. Senior Air Force staff are saying that cost overruns might cause an automatic Congressional review of the F-35 program -- already the most expensive weapon procurement program in U.S. history, at about $300 billion. The news is roiling an ongoing debate over the future of U.S. warplanes: The F-35 (developed under the Joint Strike Fighter program and still in development) is on one side. The F-22 Raptor, currently flying in the Air Force fleet, is on the other.

But why? These airplanes are built for different roles, and have different strengths. The Raptor is built to gain air superiority, while the Lightning II is being created primarily to provide close air support and conduct precision air strikes. But both are staggeringly expensive, and with the Obama administration looking at belt-tightening within the Pentagon, the two marquee warplanes have been dueling for funds. In April 2009 the Pentagon announced it was stopping F-22 production, and some quickly said that the cost overruns of the F-35 were crowding out the expensive Raptor, the world's best radar evader and dogfighter.

(Excerpt) Read more at popularmechanics.com ...


TOPICS: Government; News/Current Events
KEYWORDS: f22a; f35; lightningii; navair; raptor
"F-22 escort refueling off of KC-10 over Calgary [Canada]"
http://www.flickr.com/photos/ratzlaff/4376828977/
1 posted on 03/17/2010 4:08:35 AM PDT by EnjoyingLife
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To: EnjoyingLife
Cancel hussein’s socialism and cut taxes and reduce ALL domestic spending and spend money on defense... which the Constitution DEMANDS of real Americans... which we all know obama is NOT!

LLS

2 posted on 03/17/2010 4:15:51 AM PDT by LibLieSlayer (Wolverine)
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To: EnjoyingLife
I think the people running things right now would love nothing more than to buy so much government bureaucracy that we can no longer afford wars or the tools of war.
3 posted on 03/17/2010 4:17:47 AM PDT by RC one (WHAT!!!!)
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To: RC one

Oh we’ll still have wars. Probably more of them and bigger. We’ll just pay in blood instead of dollars.


4 posted on 03/17/2010 4:22:18 AM PDT by Kozak (USA 7/4/1776 to 1/20/2009 Reqiescat in Pace)
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To: EnjoyingLife

We need the F-35 much more than we need more F-22’s right now. I hope they can keep the program afloat.


5 posted on 03/17/2010 4:23:28 AM PDT by valkyry1
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To: EnjoyingLife

I hate to see weapons systems fail because of lack of funds but I’m sorry, there’s only one war worth fighting right now: The War Against The Socialist Takeover Of America.


6 posted on 03/17/2010 4:28:37 AM PDT by samtheman
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To: Kozak
Oh we’ll still have wars. Probably more of them and bigger. We’ll just pay in blood instead of dollars.

Truer words have never been spoken.

The bill will always be paid one way or another.

7 posted on 03/17/2010 5:29:19 AM PDT by AngryJawa (Obama's Success is America's Failure)
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To: EnjoyingLife

F-22, “the world’s best radar evader and dogfighter”? Maybe so, if by “dogfighter” one means “electronically-sighted-stand-way-off-missile-launcher”. And both of these planes are of dubious necessity. Both are the Air Force’s Perfumed Princelings’ last hurrah. Huge, shiny metal destriers carrying Aurthur’s last knights back to Camelot, eh? One of the best angles I’ve read took the F-22 to be just what the generals needed to re-win World War II again. But maybe the next big war won’t be WWII. Looks like it’ll be electronic sabotage and financial blackmail, and will likely be over, undeclared, before any F-22s or -35s can get warmed up and STOLed into the air. Hell, many of us are sure the Chinese are already well into their financial prelims for World (Cold) War III.

The F-35 Lightning II - close air support and precision air strikes - staggeringly expensive. And for Viet Nam, where, too often, a $5,000,000, 35,000 pound F-105 airplane attempted to drop a $500, 500 pound bomb on $5 bicycles, we brought back a few re-engined P-51 Mustangs originally designed in ‘40. The A-1 Skyraider there “was a propeller-driven anachronism in the jet age, and was nicknamed “Spad”, after a World War I fighter.” These new ones we’re sacrificing to build are going to hurt us, in the long run; guided micro-missile swarms will give ‘em a real scare, soon, and they’ll probably finish their “careers” remotely-piloted, cockpit full of micro-circuitry and canopy removed and smoothed over.


8 posted on 03/17/2010 5:54:59 AM PDT by flowerplough ( Pennsylvania today - New New Jersey meets North West Virginia.)
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To: magslinger

ping


9 posted on 03/17/2010 11:10:17 AM PDT by Vroomfondel
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To: Vroomfondel; SC Swamp Fox; Fred Hayek; NY Attitude; P3_Acoustic; Bean Counter; investigateworld; ...
SONOBUOY PING!

Click on pic for past Navair pings.

Post or FReepmail me if you wish to be enlisted in or discharged from the Navair Pinglist.
The only requirement for inclusion in the Navair Pinglist is an interest in Naval Aviation.
This is a medium to low volume pinglist.

10 posted on 03/17/2010 11:52:41 AM PDT by magslinger (Cry MALAISE! and let slip the dogs of incompetence.)
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To: valkyry1
We need the F-35 much more than we need more F-22’s right now. I hope they can keep the program afloat.

I disagree. The Marine Corps needs the F-35B, but the Navy doesn't need the F-35C, and the Air Force certainly doesn't need the F-35A.

If we procured more F-22s for first day strike, and more F-15Es and F-16C Block 60s, the Air Force could cover all of the missions required at a lower total cost.

The F-35 was never envisioned to operate in the stealth mode on every sortie, so as long as we have enough F-22s, which also have air-to-ground capability, for the "first day of war" missions, we'd be just fine.

11 posted on 03/17/2010 3:56:51 PM PDT by Yo-Yo (Is the /sarc tag really necessary?)
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To: AngryJawa; Kozak
(Kozak) Oh we’ll still have wars. Probably more of them and bigger. We’ll just pay in blood instead of dollars.

The bill will always be paid one way or another.

The bonus for the 'Rats is, the people who'll die will be U.S. military, the people they hate almost as much as Texans.

12 posted on 03/17/2010 4:42:12 PM PDT by lentulusgracchus
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To: Yo-Yo
I disagree. The Marine Corps needs the F-35B, but the Navy doesn't need the F-35C, and the Air Force certainly doesn't need the F-35A.

Don't forget, we've got allies aboard the F-35 program. The British are relying on the naval F-35 for their big-carrier program (that's two wings, minimum), and the Aussies are in, too.

13 posted on 03/17/2010 4:44:56 PM PDT by lentulusgracchus
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To: lentulusgracchus
Don't forget, we've got allies aboard the F-35 program. The British are relying on the naval F-35 for their big-carrier program (that's two wings, minimum), and the Aussies are in, too.

The RN and RAF are looking at only the F-35B at this point, but they did design in an option for catapult operation from their two new carriers (if they ever get built.) If they do that, they could place their money in developing a Navalized Eurofighter. However, since the USMC are extremely eager to replace their AV-8Bs with the F-35B, that could be the only variant that gets built in the originally planned numbers.

The RAAF have already ordered F/A-18Fs to fill the gap between retiring their F-111Cs and acquiring F-35As. They could easily simply order more F/A18s, probably in G configuration (or at least with the -G wiring installed,) they could order the F-15E (which is a better replacement for their F-111s than either the F/A-18 or the F-35), or a bit of both.

14 posted on 03/17/2010 6:03:46 PM PDT by Yo-Yo (Is the /sarc tag really necessary?)
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To: lentulusgracchus
Speaking of the F-35B...

http://www.freerepublic.com/focus/f-news/2473440/posts

15 posted on 03/17/2010 6:13:07 PM PDT by Yo-Yo (Is the /sarc tag really necessary?)
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To: valkyry1
"We need the F-35 much more than we need more F-22’s right now. I hope they can keep the program afloat."

I disagree. I'm not a fan of either program, but if you had to buy one, the F-22 is the overwhelming choice here. There's nothing the F-35 can do that the F-22 can't. The same isn't true in reverse. The F-35's air-to-air capabilities pale in comparison, and yet the F-22 now has advanced strike software in it's weapon's suite now, and has a larger weapons bay. When you consider that the JSF now costs as much per copy as the F-22, really, the choice is easy. You kill the Joint Strike Failure and take the better plane.
16 posted on 03/17/2010 6:20:33 PM PDT by DesScorp
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To: Yo-Yo
The F-35 was never envisioned to operate in the stealth mode on every sortie, so as long as we have enough F-22s, which also have air-to-ground capability, for the "first day of war" missions, we'd be just fine.

The problem is that the F-22 can not carry a number of weapons critial to the success of the overall air campaign, even the first day. Think SEAD

17 posted on 03/17/2010 10:59:07 PM PDT by Starwolf
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