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To: Lmo56
LOL. You can't even comprehend the texts you quote! Case in point.

Calvin's Case clearly states that a child can only be a natural born subject if he is born within the sovreign's dominion AND under actual obedience to that same sovreign. That obedience was transmitted through the parents - BOTH parents had to be under actual obedience to the sovreign.

Yeah. All that means is that the parents are subject to the King and have to obey his laws at the time and place of the birth. In a republic without a King, the analogous concept is that the parents are subject to the jurisdiction of the the government at the time of birth, which was the case with both Wong's parents as well as Obama's.

Actual obedience means solitary allegiance -

Uh, no. Allegiance and obediance have different meanings.

All "actual obedience" means is that the parents are living in territory under the King's rule and obligated to obligated to obey the King at the time and place of their child's birth.

Applied to a republic, it just means that the parents are living in the sovereign territory of the Republic and are only obligated to follow that Republic's laws at the time of the child's birth. That is also clearly the case with Obama's parents, as well as Wong's.

354 posted on 03/15/2010 10:14:15 PM PDT by curiosity
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To: curiosity
Yeah. All that means is that the parents are subject to the King and have to obey his laws at the time and place of the birth. In a republic without a King, the analogous concept is that the parents are subject to the jurisdiction of the the government at the time of birth, which was the case with both Wong's parents as well as Obama's.

Uh, no. Allegiance and obediance have different meanings.

All "actual obedience" means is that the parents are living in territory under the King's rule and obligated to obligated to obey the King at the time and place of their child's birth.

Applied to a republic, it just means that the parents are living in the sovereign territory of the Republic and are only obligated to follow that Republic's laws at the time of the child's birth. That is also clearly the case with Obama's parents, as well as Wong's.

I thought you might fall into this trap - I DID NOT include Dicey [from Ark] in my post. Let us see what he REALLY has to say:

" ... CHAPTER III. BRITISH NATIONALITY.1 Rule 20.

(1) "British subject" means any person who owes permanent allegiance to the Crown. [See Note, below]

(2) "Natural-born British subject" means a British subject who has become a British subject at the moment of his birth.

(3) "Naturalized British subject" means any British subject who is not a natural-born British subject.

(4) "Alien" means any person who is not a British subject.

See the Naturalization Act, 1870, 33 & 34 Viet. cap. 14; the Naturalization Act, 1872, 35 & 36 Viet. cap. 39; the Naturalization Act, 1895, 68 & 59 Viet. cap. 43. Conf. 25 Edw. III. stat. 2 ; 7 Anne, cap. 5, s. 3 ; 4 Geo. II. cap. 21, s. 1 ; 13 Geo. III. cap. 21 ; 7 & 8 Viet. cap. 66 ; Westlake, 3rd ed., chap. xv.; Foote, 2nd ed., chap. i. ; 1 Steph. Comm., 12th ed., 136 ; 2 Ibid., 405-410. See App., Note 5, Acquisition, loss, and resumption of British nationality.

NOTE: "Permanent" allegiance is used to distinguish the allegiance of a British subject from the allegiance of an alien who, because he is within the British dominions, owes "temporary" allegiance to the Crown ...

... The exceptional and unimportant instances in which birth within the British dominions does not of itself confer British nationality are due to the fact that, though at common law nationality or allegiance in substance depended on the place of a person's birth, it in theory, at least, depended not upon the locality of a man's birth, but upon his being born within the jurisdiction and allegiance of the King of England, and it might occasionally happen that a person was born within the dominions without being born within the allegiance, or, in other words, under the protection and control of, the Crown ..."

Now ... lets see ... Calvin's Case [1608] is the seminal case concerning natural born subjects. Calvin's Case demands BOTH being born within the dominion and under the SOLE obedience to the sovreign.

"Ligeance is a true and faithful obedience of the subject due to his Sovereign" [direct quote from Calvin's Case].

Ligeance: Allegiance; the faithful obedience of a subject to his sovreign [Black's Law].

Ligeance is the root for the modern day word "allegiance".

Allegiance = Obedience = Ligeance.

Per Dicey [and supporting English statutes], a British Subject owes permanent allegiance [obedience, ligeance] to the Crown - as opposed to temporary allegiance [obedience, ligeance].

A natural born subject owes permanent allegiance [obedience, ligeance] to the Crown - as opposed to temporary allegiance [obedience, ligeance], from the time of his birth.

Per Calvin's Case [1608], obedience is derived from the parents - and it MUST be permanent. Since allegiance = obedience = ligeance, a child born [to a father being an alien and incapable of permanent allegiance], is a naturalized British subject NOT a natural born British subject.

FYI: And Dicey notes that there are RARE circumstances when a child born within the dominion IS NOT a British subject [and we aren't talking about a child of an ambassador here].

DO SOME DAMN RESEARCH BEFORE SPEWING YOUR DRIVEL ...

362 posted on 03/15/2010 11:26:59 PM PDT by Lmo56
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