Pentagon gun traced to Memphis police (mild barfer)

AP via MSNBC.com ^ | 03/10/2010 | Staff

[OldDeckHand]

Some departments sell or trade weapons seized in criminal cases.

WASHINGTON - Two guns used in high-profile shootings this year at the Pentagon and a Las Vegas courthouse both came from the same unlikely place: the police and court system of Memphis, Tenn.

Law enforcement officials told The Associated Press that both guns were once seized in criminal cases in Memphis. The officials described how the weapons made their separate ways from an evidence vault to gun dealers and to the shooters.

[ASOC]

When I sell a weapon, I do it through a local gun dealer. He takes a 15% cut, but it is worth it - he displays, deals with the customers, collects the dough - I just collect his check.

THat he checks them thru the fedgov is a bonus - if the weapon is ever involved in a crime, I am out out of the loop....

[jwparkerjr]

I agree, but I want to make sure that we don't come across as people who don't care that they might be selling a weapon to someone who shouldn't have it. Just as matter of self preservation I want to avoid being sued to hell and back by the family of someone shot with a gun I sold without making at least a reasonable attempt to determine if the buyer has been declared incompetent or is a felon barred by law from owning a firearm. In today's litigious society I perceive a reasonable responsibility when transferring a weapon.

I certainly don't think this means the government keeping a list of everyone who has a firearm.

I consider my right to keep and bear a firearm important enough to take steps to keep one of mine from falling into the wrong hands.

Sadly, it's like so much government does these days. They go after any problem with a sledge hammer, disregarding the rights of the law abiding citizen to supposedly keep the bad guy in check.

[Dayman]

It’s easilly explainable how two guns wound up in the hands of people who misused them. PD’s often wholesale out both their own service guns and guns which are confiscated during the course of their normal work. These guns go to auctions or distributors who then resell them to dealers all across the country. It’s perfectly legal and doesn’t pose a problem. There will always be someone who misuses a firearm regardless of where that gun came from.

[Dayman]

Instead of NICS or a book why not just go back to allowing people to by firearms like they the day before the Brady act went into effect?

[Concho]

You are missing the point.

2 guns from Memphis, end up in the hands of 2 nutcases from California and Nevada, and they kill 2 cops in Nevada and wound 2 in DC....

Sorry, that is not a coincidence.

Believe me I know all about gun dealing. The likelihood of that being random coincidence is off the scale.

[SkipW]

Something stinks about this story. Who were the dealers who sold the guns to the shooters? You can’t just walk into a gun shop and buy a gun without being run through the federal system.

In some places police have not destroyed all of the guns turned in to be destroyed. In some cases the guns wind up being “throw downs.” In others they just become the property of the officers who liberate them.

One thing is for sure. This will be used by gun grabbers as fodder to feed the anti-Second Amendment efforts to disarm the American people. This article refers to private sales. Obviously an effort will continue to regulate or prohibit private sales.

Don’t forget the so called “gun show loophole.” They have been trying to curtail private sales at gun shows for years. With all of the information that can’t be divulged by law enforcement about these cases there is plenty of room to be suspicious of this entire story.

Don’t forget that bogus story last year about 90% of the illegal firearms entering Mexico coming from the U.S. That story was a bald faced lie. I remember Juan Williams, one of the resident lefties on Fox News making that claim. Even after the lie was exposed Williams did not correct his false remarks.

I hope no one interprets my remarks as indicating any hostility toward police. I sure wouldn’t want to live anywhere without their presence. But there is no way to avoid having a few people in any large group of people who should not be there. There are also some police officers who are anti-gun when it comes to civilians. It makes no difference to them that in at least one large eastern city average response time to a 911 call was two hours.

[OldDeckHand]

"Something stinks about this story. Who were the dealers who sold the guns to the shooters? You can’t just walk into a gun shop and buy a gun without being run through the federal system."

The Memphis PD sold them to dealers, who sold them to private individuals. Those private individuals then sold them to people who were on the NICS list. They know the provenance of the weapons because of their serial numbers.

There's no conspiracy here. But, the fact of the matter is a guy who was deemed legally unfit to own a firearm due to mental defect , obtained a firearm anyways through a private sale, circumventing the NICS. There's no other way to color it. That's what happened.

[javachip]

Publish a list of people disallowed.

You're kidding, right? You want the government to publish a list of every prohibited person? How do you make sure the list only gets used for its intended purpose? Do you post enough information to identify which Bill Brown or Robert Jones the list refers to?

It's bad enough the government has the information to create such a list, but at least under the current system the information has some protection from unauthorized use.

[Still Thinking]

I don't know. Maybe post only SSN's or something. I realize that would come with its own problems, but I use it to illustrate that you don't need the index to be names.

I know I don't approve of the way it is now. Plus, now it's the good guys that suffer by being monitored, at least then the suffering would be focused on the people who are supposedly the "problem".

[Still Thinking]

I know. I’m just pointing out the hypocrisy and hidden agenda of those who think registering with the government to exercise rights we already had is unavoidable if we think we DO need background checks. I’m not taking a position in favor of background checks myself, just showing them up for liars, tyrants, and hypocrites.

[sig226]

I was under the impression that all handgun sales in California must go through a licensed dealer, and then the state and federal background check. There is also a waiting period, at least there was when I lived there. The private sale requirement is fairly new, but if I’m right, then Bedell violated it.

[OldDeckHand]

"I was under the impression that all handgun sales in California must go through a licensed dealer"

Bedell purchased the weapon at a gun show in Las Vegas.

[sig226]

It's worth noting that, according to the article, Bedell and the seller of the Ruger also violated the 1968 Gun Control Act:

Law enforcement officials say Bedell, a man with a history of severe psychiatric problems, had been sent a letter by California authorities Jan. 10 telling him he was prohibited from buying a gun because of his mental history.
Nineteen days later, the officials say, Bedell bought the Ruger at a gun show in Las Vegas. Such a sale by a private individual does not require the kind of background check that would have stopped Bedell's purchase.

The 1968 G.C.A. prohibits private transactions for any regulated gun between residents of different states. The transfer must be effected through an FFL, and one with a California dealer license is an additional state and federal requirement. Muzzleloaders and antiques are excluded from the requirement.

[Dayman]

That is a very small number of guns that were misused. One individual buying the guns for his own use, not liking them (or needing cash, getting divorced, medical bills, etc.) then reselling them in private party sales to other residents of the state of TN could easilly account for those guns. This is highly likely as most people sell a gun or two here and there. It is also perfectly legal.

[Concho]

Missing the point again. The guns made it from the PD to 2 guys on the west coast who were both psychos..I understand the gun business well....this was not coincidence.

If 2 gang bangers in Memphis ended up with them,,,sure, but 2 psychos who commit high profile shootings of Federal Marshals and Pentagon guards............please....I am not buying it.