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To: Mr. Jeeves

So the Founders supported homosexual marriage, abortion on demand and pornography?


13 posted on 03/03/2010 7:43:18 AM PST by Above My Pay Grade
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To: Above My Pay Grade; Mr. Jeeves; manc
So the Founders supported homosexual marriage, abortion on demand and pornography?

LOL, this hits it exactly.

It should come as no surprise that part of the blessing of liberty that conservatives should be conserving includes...drum roll please...the sort of "social conservatism" (as it is termed now) that restrains our baser instincts and enables us to actually function as a commonwealth of self-governing individual citizens.

One of libertarianism's many problems is that it doesn't truly understand the concept of "self-government." The average libertarian thinks "self-government" means "doing whatever I want to do, whenever I want to, regardless of what anyone thinks of it, so long as I'm not putting somebody's eye out while I'm doing it." The Founders, as well as the entire series of philosophical ground-layers upon whom the Founders rested from Algernon Sidney and John Locke all the way back to Marcus Tullius Cicero, would have disagreed.

Self-government involves voluntary restraint of our own desires so that we can function within the commonwealth in a way that facilitates civil society among us all. Or at least that's the way John Locke would have defined it. Libertarians, on the other hand, want to take us back to Locke and Hobbes' "state of nature" in which there is no commonwealth.

Because man is what he is, the unrestrained fulfillment of his every whim will ALWAYS end up infringing on the natural liberties of other individuals. To see the truth of this in our society merely requires us to read the news with at least a modicum of understanding of human nature. Hence, man always needs government. The issue is, then, whether that will be self-government or other-government. To the extent that we do not exhibit the former, we will have that much greater a proportion of the latter.

15 posted on 03/03/2010 7:51:36 AM PST by Titus Quinctius Cincinnatus (We bury Democrats face down so that when they scratch, they get closer to home.)
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To: Above My Pay Grade

On the outskirts of society, that which seems “strange” was not only tolerated, but considered “normal” during the early years of our country. It was not that govt promoted it, but allowed local law to rule. Centralizing power is the way of the tyrant. When the “strange” grab control of this tyrannical power, they promote it. Much better to allow local govts to do as they please on the local level, keep centralized govt to a minimum, and tolerate the differences.

If gays want to marry, shouldn’t it be up to the voters in a State, county or city? Ditto for abortion, and porn. As for gay marriage, govt caused this problem, when it took unto itself MARRIAGE itself.


18 posted on 03/03/2010 8:05:15 AM PST by runninglips (Don't support the Republican party, work to "fundamentally change" it...conservative would be nice)
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To: Above My Pay Grade

“So the Founders supported homosexual marriage, abortion on demand and pornography?”

Where and by which Founders were those issues written of?


50 posted on 03/03/2010 3:10:53 PM PST by truth_seeker
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