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To: Smokin' Joe

Libertarians want to open the border.

Thats a nonstarter, thats a deal killer.


242 posted on 02/20/2010 3:57:42 PM PST by GeronL (I pledge allegiance to the Principles of the Bill of Rights and to protect and defend it...)
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To: GeronL
None of the self-professed Libertarians I have talked with want to open the border. They are not against legal immigration, but recognize that those who immigrate should follow the laws here--and learn to speak English.

"...provide for the common defense..." is spelled out in the Constitution as one of the reasons for forming a Constitutional Republic, and border security certainly falls under that, something both the Dems and the GOP have failed to do.

But then, none of them believe Bush orchestrated the 911 attacks, nor any of the other wild-eyed 'troofer' beliefs which are often attributed to libertarians.

Some have advocated the end of the 'war on drugs' which they see as a loser, as inflating the price of street drugs which they assert contributes to a host of other social problems in addition to the drugs, as making organized crime rich, and as being the justification for egregious violations in both statute and act of our Fourth and Fifth Amendment rights.

That does not mean that they are drug users, nor that they even approve of using drugs, just that they see how destructive the whole campaign has been to the Bill of Rights for all of us.

The same arguments were used to repeal alcohol prohibition.

Had one suggested that police, dressed in full combat regalia and carrying automatic weapons, were kicking down doors in the middle of the night when I was a kid, we would have asked "Where? In the USSR? Nazi Germany?". Not in America.

Frankly, if Conservative ideals are going to dominate in the discussion, (I am a Constitutional Conservative, an originalist, if you will) I think we can all find enough common ground which is at odds with the Socialist regime currently running this country off a cliff that we can change direction for the better.

Failure to do so will only result in the sort of self-destructive nit-picking which has proven destructive to our efforts in the past.

So let's get down to some common goals, some which will serve the desires and needs of all.

As a first step, overturn Roe, and return the decisions about "choice" to the States. That is not perfect, but it will save a lot of lives annually, and is a step in the right direction.

It also flies in the face of standardized health care at the Federal Level, which must be stopped or repealed ASAP, due to the expense and degredation of service which will ensue. Paying for care for those who desperately need it is one thing, insuring everyone (which means you pay even if you don't need care) is quite another.

DOWNSIZING the Government. With the elimination of Federal agencies and programs which have no Constitutional authorization, and the return of those functions to the individual states or local government, the expense and control of those functions devolves to the State and local level, where people can eliminate them if they so choose.

Allow failure. The Declaration of Independence claims 'The Pursuit of Happiness' as an unalienable Right, but that is only the Right to pursue it, not a guarantee of success. End the bailouts. Nothing is 'too big to fail', Rome wasn't, our country isn't, and if we don't let the institutions which have made a wreck of their business affairs fail, we risk dragging the whole nation underwater with them.

Painful? Certainly, for some. Why share the pain for the misdeeds of those who have lived lavish lifestyles with those who have lived humble lives within their means--so those who have lived lavish lifestyles can continue to do so? In 1929, some of those who were ruined jumped out of windows, but the only thing falling on wall street last year was the net worth of retirement nest eggs.

I could go on, but this is a start, and I welcome others to add to it.

What Conservative ideals do you see as immutable?

405 posted on 02/20/2010 7:38:15 PM PST by Smokin' Joe (How often God must weep at humans' folly. Stand fast. God knows what He is doing.)
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